Republican-not

It's all about "we the people". The MSM, Hollywood, the bloggers etc. have done everything in their power to deride and ridicule the protesters, but all it has done is increase they're numbers. The dems could pass this bill, there are ways. But oh the price they would pay. The time has finally come when they actually are being forced to serve the people for a change. The playground name calling has become just so much background noise. Health care reform is not the number one issue today. They're making it so, but just ask the people. Not just a few liberal bloggers, but the people. They'll tell you it's jobs. They'll tell you they've had a bellyfull of watching our boy's die in Afganistan. Heathcare is just not the main issue. Ask the American people, all of them, how they feel about KSM. The overwhelming majority, liberals included, will tell you he needs to die, actually should have been dead already. But that's not what you gather when you read these blogs. Amazes me how many people want to defend his "rights". So many people have lost their jobs, and as a result lost they're healthcare. It seems pretty simple to me, get the jobs back. Then we can work on healthcare. Why do they call it common sense when there seems to be so little of it.

Getting the jobs back is anything but simple. Companies get tax breaks when they move their operations overseas. We're coming out of the worst recession in 70 years. Jobs creation always lags behind a rebound in the markets. Much of this is about healthcare. We have one party that recognizes the need for a major overhaul of the entire system and another party that insists that we just need to tweak it. We are far past the time when tweaking was an option.
.
It's hard to say how this is all going to play out in either the short or long term. It's still a year away from the midterms and anything can happen. If history is any guide at all, the dems will suffer losses. It's hard to imagine them not after two wave elections. I don't think the dems will lose control of either house, but honestly, nothing surprises me anymore.

sacredh

We have one party that recognizes the need for a major overhaul of the entire system

Which party is that?

I concede. I'll amend that to the progressive wing of the democratic party.

Historical fact: Tax cuts have ALWAYS expanded business and created jobs. Increases have ALWAYS stifled them. Again, incredibly simple to me, but maybe I'm just living in a bubble......?

"Tax cuts have ALWAYS expanded business and created jobs. Increases have ALWAYS stifled them."

That is so incredibly full of platypus turds. You need to read Justin Fox.

Ffred

Justin Fox? Everyone should look to a Political Scientist with a specialty in American Politics to study tax policy. Why not add Robert Reich as well.

About that "historical fact" :
.
See this *LINK* to a Forbes discussion of historical reality, including the consequences of a tax increase under Saint Ronnie.

@2thirdsrocks: maybe its just me, but don't you have to raise taxes at some point so you can be able to cut taxes at another point. Unless you're proposing cutting without ever raising taxes, which by logic will eventually get us to zero taxes at some point. I'm I getting this all wrong?

Yeah, because God knows we will never cut spending. Too many moochers with their hands out.

The demographics of the country can't change fast enough for me. They evidently aren't satisfied with getting a slice of the pie. In another generation they'll have to settle for the crumbs.

Goldman Sachs is also a special interest group. The problem with capitulating to labor is they're part of a group that gets a pretty decent health insurance plan (in general) and have the clout needed to keep their plans if times get tough - they can afford for their plans to be taxed just as much as Goldman Sachs can afford for its plan to be taxed. Capitulating to Labor at the expense of the millions of Americans who are neither part of a union (which is the vast majority of working Americans - for better or for worse) nor have health insurance is almost as bad as capitulating the Goldman Sachs - I say almost because Goldman Sachs knows how to ruin the economy far better than labor does.

Spot on. You can always rely on Democrats to turn on their own when in power. The Blue Dog Democrat looks suspiciously like a Republcan " light " version. And the idiots think they have a "hold" (hat tip to bitter!) on Lieberman?

This is the case.

"The Blue Dog Democrat looks suspiciously like a Republcan " light " version"

That is because they are Republicans in many respects. The moderates in the Repbulican party had to go somewhere after being purged out of their own party. Hence the rise in people self-reporting as being "Independent".

Sorry, Joe Klein, it's a busy morning for me.
.
By "the same centrists", I meant the 7 DLC Democrats in the Gang of 14 who stopped the Dem minority from filibustering when the GOP was in the majority (and Majority Leader Frist threatened the nuclear option to end the filibuster rule).

Seriously? Are you naive or stupid? And Democrats only want to pass things that are in their interests. So how is that any different?

Republicans, at least in their current manifestation, don't want anything getting done on capital hill. Period.

durangodave

As opposed to a philosophy of passing a bill any bill regardless of the size or consequence, I prefer not to pass any bill.

freeinpa

Mmm, no. As opposed to finding areas of common purpose, working to include those in legislation, and then voting for the legislation containing your ideas, or at the very least voting to permit a majority vote on the finished product.

durangodave

"or at the very least voting to permit a majority vote on the finished product."

Oh you mean like the Demos did with Bush's judicial nominees?

freeinpa

If I were you, I think I would want to steer clear of mention of judicial nominees, considering a comparison of the number of W's judicial nominees approved by the Democrats and Obama's judicial nominees being blocked by Republicans. It doesn't help your "argument."

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you voted for a democrat for president? The last time I voted republican was when I couldn't bring myself to vote for Michael Dukakis. I've also never voted independent because it just seemed like throwing your vote away. Protest votes are futile.

1992. I felt GHWB was not running to win and was trying to appease folks of all stripes.

It sounds like were the flip sides of the same coin. I used to work for various campaigns but I think I'm ready to stop. Both parties make me sick so I'm probably going to just send money and vote from now on. Going door to door just doesn't appeal to me anymore. The last time i was a poll watcher I was paired up with a pretty funny lesbian. We spent the whole evening checking out and commenting on the women. We had similar tastes.

Hit the nail on the head freeinpa. Joe Klein and his twin at the Washington Post, E J Dionne are purely liberals patting each other on the back for their observations of the Senate.
.
They detest Blue Dog Dems and Republicans simply because they are using the same tactics which were used by the Liberal Dems in the Senate just a few short years ago.
.
Hate to break it to ya Bubba Joe. America has spoken up since the last election, and they DO NOT LIKE what Obama has brought with him to the White House.
.
America understands we need some health care reform, but we also recognize that the economy has been so screwed up by the Democrats and the White House that now is NOT the time for liberal / progressive reforms. NOT the time for big entitlement programs when we are well over 12 TRILLION dollars in debt.
.
But what does Joe and EJ pine for? SPEND SPEND SPEND
.
Hell the Democrats havn't figured out yet what all the stimulus money created, let alone how to figure out how much all the health care reform will cost and who will be affected by it for the next 20 or 30 years.
.
Change for simply change sake is not good for the Country. Change that Obama has proposed is nothing more than smoke and mirror politics to transfer massive amounts of money from lobbyist A to lobbyist B.
.
America is now awake. We understand that those in Washington are not looking out for our best interests. We see in their bills the complexity, that they will not even read, let alone understand.
.
Voters will react in 2010 you can bet on it. Out with the OLD and in with the NEW. Gone are the liberals who want to spend us into the future and perhaps destroy our great Nation. Stopping them now as the Republicans are attempting to do is saving us from total destrution by the Democrats.
.
When you can define Joe Klein what it is exactly and how much it will cost for health care reform, then and only then will we listen. Otherwise take your garbage postings here and shove them up inside where the sun doesn't shine!!

Rusty:
.
I'm guessing you missed last night's Daily Show, when Jon Stewart distilled reality into a simple explanation: the Republicans don't really support small government – they just support Republican government. They only get concerned about overspending when someone else is doing it. After eight years of giveaways to billionaires and a trillion on the credit card for rd for an unnecessary war, the recent GOP shirt-rending over the sudden discovery of "big government" is a bad joke.

Rustydog:
.
Joe Klein is not a liberal.

SZ:

I am intrigued! What is Joe Klein, if not a liberal?

freeinpa:

What is Joe Klein, if not a liberal?

Here is a link to my explanation of Joe Klein's political philosophy: link to "Joe Klein is Not Your Friend".
.
If you're rather not go out of your way to read one of my lengthy pieces, then let me just ask you this:
.
Would a liberal write a column denouncing liberal Democrats' opposition to Bush II's Social Security privatization scheme like this one ( link to Joe Klein's advice that, if it had been implemented, would have left SS as broke as the banks last fall pre-bailout )?

The Incredible Shrinking Democrats
.
Bush's private investment accounts, combined with a reduction in benefits or higher taxes, is one way for baby boomers to lighten the burden of our retirement upon our children. There are other ways, but none without pain. A far more profitable—and absolutely necessary—reform would be a market-oriented overhaul of Medicare, but Dems just say no to that too.
.
The current Democrats resemble nothing so much as the Republicans during the 25 years after Roosevelt's death—negative, defensive, intellectually feeble, a permanent minority.
.
The Democrats' current crudeness is a function of their desperation, and the imminent ratification of Howard Dean, the least charming presidential candidate in recent memory, as their party chairman only serves to punctuate the problem.
.
All of which leaves Bush with a lot of room to lead. His speech last week was striking...It could easily have been delivered by a New Democrat...
.
There is, then, a profitable discussion to be had between "ownership" Republicans and "third-way" Democrats about transforming the stagnant bureaucracies of the Industrial Age. Republicans refused to play during the Clinton presidency; the stunned and churlish Democrats are refusing now. It will be interesting to see whether Bush, at the height of his powers, actually tries to break the impasse.

No, Joe Klein is no liberal leftist. By his own account, he's a Third Way Democrat...which means a centrist.

SZ:

I appreciate your explanation. A centrist to me is one who feels strongly both ways and has little in the way a principles.

Having read many of JK's posts hear and listening to him on Chris Tingles show I would question your definition of a Democratic centrist. Actually what it really brings into question is your definition of a left-wing extremist which by relative positioning would be off the charts nuts.

freeinpa:

I appreciate your explanation. A centrist to me is one who feels strongly both ways and has little in the way a principles.

Thanks for reading.
.
A centrist does have principles, but the primary principle they have is that compromise is always good, and that we're crazy and radical for not compromising.
.
You and I would have a fight over whether a bridge should be built, and they will work hard to screw both of us by insisting that half a bridge should be built. They honestly believe those things, which is why they don't see that half a bridge is worse than no bridge at all.

Neither side wants to compromise with the other.
.
Bullsh!t.

Yes? See what I mean? The left wing of the Dem Party is just as nasty as the Right Wing of the Rep Party. I see all the posts of purging the Dem. Party, just like the Rep. Party.

See what I mean?
.
No, I typed in 'bullsh!t' because that statement you made is dead wrong. If reading an expletive in a blog gives you the vapors, you need to toughen up.
.
The left wing of the Dem Party is just as nasty..
.
You come to this conclusion because a guy in a blog uses a common profanity to tell you you're wrong? That's even more...um...ah...bullcrap...
.
Don't worry; I'll be sending someone to pick you up off the floor after you read that one.

That person is right, grapecrush. Unless you use the new Democrat definition of bi-partisianship which is: "you will come all the way over to my side and agree with me."

That person is right...
.
No, that person is not right.
.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
.
Right around 1:20.

You know allthings, I've noticed that the Democrats recently have crowed on and on about how we wouldn't accept a moderate in New York (she wasn't a conservative/moderate by the way...and was not selected by the people) and that the party will not accept even minor differences in ideology in the party.
.
These are the same people who are completely up in arms about the blue dogs, and breathe fire at the mere mention of Joe Lieberman.

Finally an honest man!

That's not how I remember it. The Democratic response was to note that (1) Bush's "sky is falling" claims about Social Security were grossly exaggerated, (2) the proposed solution would have put millions of Americans' retirement resources at risk (a pretty good call, as it turned out) for the benefit of Wall Streeters, and (3) we needed to consider alternatives like increased contributions by the upper-income folks, most of whose income is exempt. The GOP was uninterested in taxing its own, so its response to a call for alternatives became "My way or nothing." Doing nothing turned out to be the wiser alternative.

FlownOver

Your memory doesn't make it fact. Demos stone-walled at every turn and used scare tactics with seniors as they do every election. Social Security is going bust and with a deficit that is growing it won't get better.

Tax increases, the mantra of the left, won't begin to solve it either. Leaving out the nightmare known as HC reform, taxes for Medicare, Medicaid and SS will push tax rates north of 30% just for those entitlements. How will you feed the pigs like ACORN, NPR and the like?

Since you seem quite enamored with doing nothing, why not apply the same principle to HC, since there are more than a few studies that doing nothing will still cost less than this reform.

One can remember a sizable part of the Democrats being vehemently opposed to John Roberts and Samuel Alito simply because they may vote against Roe v. Wade if given the opportunity.

Whoa, delayed time zone on the replies. Sorry about that.

I blame it on alternative universes and time travel paradoxes. I hate it when that happens.

Hmmm, so maybe I really am living in a bubble?

You brought up lesbians, sacred.

I sat in for 2 or 3 gigs a few years back with a pop rock band that had a lesbian drummer. One of the coolest chicks I know. We're friends to this day, not close, but whenever we bump into each other we always have a blast. And she knows I'm a conservative. It's nice to be accepted for who you are.

"It's nice to be accepted for who you are"
.
2/3rocks- Don't you know by now? It is only important to accept racial/ethnic diversity. Intolerance in regards to political ideology- now that's a WAY different story!

"because very few stories are devoted to the dirty tricks, parliamentary games and delay tactics that the GOP has used in their refusal to participate in the governance of this nation."

Yes and the Demos have never done any of this. Truly Dee shut up already

No freepa I won't shut up. Your side might be desperately trying to turn my country into an authoritarian nightmare, but we are not there yet and you have no power to decide who speaks and who is heard. The constitution gives me a first amendment right to speak my freakin mind and I will do so even if it makes you uncomfortable. I just wish the press would stop being so easily manipulated and start exposing you people for the danger you are. We just went through eight years of the most incompetent lawless regime this country has ever seen and now the media is doing everything within its power to shill for you people again. One more round of Republicans rule and we might as well a.l move to Canada because they will have run this country into the ground.

"One more round of Republicans rule and we might as well a.l move to Canada because they will have run this country into the ground."

.
Which liberal fairy do I have to pray to, in order for you to move, Dee?

Not uncomfortable but nauseous. You have this delusion that these page long tirades make sense to anybody but you.

PS If you need a ride across the border I would be glad to chip in to buy you a bus ticket.

Rusty:

Barney Frank??

Rusty: Don't get down on your knees when you pray to a liberal fairy. It's the oldest trick in the book and you'll regret it.