Trigger Happy
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has said he will include a public option that states can vote to opt out of in his version of the health care reform bill that could be unveiled as early as Wednesday. But that certainly hasn't ended the debate in the Senate about what kind of public option may finally end up passing the upper chamber and if you talk to centrists the only word you hear is trigger: there's the Snowe trigger, the “hair” trigger and something Senator Tom Carper, a centrist Delaware Democrat, is calling the “hammer.”
Carper is trying to build centrist unity around his idea in order to offer it as an alterative if and when the opt-out public option fails – a provision, he says, that just doesn't have the votes to pass the Senate. “We'll see what comes out of Reid's bill but I think at the end of the day we may need something along the lines of what I'm suggesting in order to finish debate on the bill and report [the bill] out,” Carper said.
Carper is meeting with centrists such as Joe Lieberman, Olympia Snowe, Mary Landrieu, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh and Blanche Lincoln asking them what kind of a trigger they might vote for. “What we're asking centrists is: 'What concerns do you need to have addressed to vote for cloture?'” Carper said. “And the two concerns that we hear over and over again is government run and government financed.” Both the hair trigger --which measures market penetration (an idea panned by at least one centrist, Nelson) -- and Snowe's trigger would institute government run public options on a state-by-state basis. In order to avoid direct government involvement, Carper is suggesting a national co-op. 
The day the exchange is created states would have to meet an affordability test. Those that fail would be forced to compete with a non-profit co-op, based off of Senator Kent Conrad's original idea. The co-op board would be appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. There would be an angel investment footed by the taxpayers to be eventually repaid and reserves set to protect against taxpayer bailouts. That said, the details of the plan are still sketchy: such as what defines the affordability trigger (TBD “by people smarter than me,” Carper said), how much will be needed in seed money, whether the Department of Health and Human Services should be involved and if states could eventually leave the co-op if they met certain qualifications. But, Carper argued, the plan is stronger than his previous suggestion – where states could elect to opt-in to a national government-run public plan. “Opt-in suggests it's voluntarily but with the hammer approach those states would have to opt-in on day one,” he said.
The plan, on paper, would overcome Lieberman's objections to a government-run competitor to insurers and would seem to fit Snowe's criteria for a trigger. But, this is all a work in progress, Carper said. “Everyone will have a chance to see it and to offer suggestions." The most important thing, he added, is to find a compromise that can garner 60 votes in the Senate. Such an idea might make centrists happy, but it's sure to anger progressvies who thought Snowe's trigger -- which created an actual public plan -- was already too weak. Reid's challenge will be appeasing Carper's group while holding everyone on the left. And that might take a while.
-
1
Calling Ben Nelson a centrist is like calling Sarah Palin credible. D+.
-
1.1
You're screwing with me, right?
-
1.2
...Just in case you weren't having a laugh at my aneurysm's expence (Link to DLC's profile of great new talent Ben Nelson):
DLC | New Dem Of The Week | June 1, 2005
.
New Dem of the Week: Ben Nelson
.
U.S. Senator, Nebraska
.
When a bipartisan group of 14 Senators gathered last week in the Capitol, they struck a blow against polarization and a short-sighted effort to radically change the U.S. Senate. Their compromise on judicial nominations, temporary though its effects may be, represented a triumph of common sense. Seven members from each party came to a genuine and sound agreement and they did it in the midst of a nearly poisonous atmosphere that had been threatening to grow still worse...
.
The seven Republicans made a commitment to vote against a nuclear maneuver for the rest of this Congress. The seven Democrats agreed to reserve filibusters against judicial nominees to "extraordinary" cases, which aptly captures the extraordinary nature of filibusters themselves. The two sides compromised...
.
"In addition to having people here whose word is good, you also have mutual trust," Nelson said. "Now the Senate can move forward and get to important business."
.
It is unclear how long the truce will last -- and with John Bolton's nomination to be named ambassador to the United Nations still hanging over the Senate, our glimpse of civility may have been very short-lived.
.
Ultimately though, what America saw last week in the work of Nelson and his colleagues...is a promising beginning and one that manages also to honor and respect the party's core principles. Indeed, both the group that struck this deal and Democrats like Minority Leader Harry Reid, who welcomed the compromise, seem to agree that empowering the extremes by indulging in unending ideologically motivated procedural games of chicken, ultimately hurts no one more than it does the American people.
Ben Nelson: The Beltway's SuperCentrist & the DLC's New Democrat of the Week, June 1, 2005, working every day to "honor and respect" the Democratic Party's "core principles" --compromise and bipartisanship.
.
Compromise and bipartisanship are core principles of which political ideology again?
.
Conservatism? No...
.
Liberalism? No... -
1.3
I doubt Nelson has any principles, left or center or right, other than re-election über alles. He's a "centrist" only in a Nelson-centric universe.
-
-
2
Thanks, Jay. How serious is the divide between progressives (wanting the PO) and centrists / moderates / third wayers / whatevers (wanting exchanges and triggers)? …yes, I read your earlier senate blowing deadline post and the comments over “what is a moderate”; that's been a long debate here for awhile. Are cloture votes lacking as Carper claims, or can Reid still get them? I wonder if this attempted new deal will wind up sliced and diced like Baucus' earlier efforts – “work in progress” was quoted a lot for B's first committee draft. (you can guess I'm a night owl, thus often asking you and Amy q's during late posts – tougher to ask KT in the morning) Thanks!
.
OT, but your last au revoir post vanished for awhile! Tech bug, or something awry? If I posted anything bad, sorry about that.-
2.1
luv u decon but u need to get your story straight. positing the public option vs the exchanges is a very bad analogy for progressive vs moderate dogma.
.
and although inoffensive, it's prolly just as bad as liebermann saying a premium-funded public option would increase the national debt.
.
But this is a bit dismaying. We've gone from an state-based regular PO through a trigger to an opt-in to an opt-out. And now, the deal is to a an triggered co-opt (mind adding an opt-in while you're at it)? Co-opt? why even spend the money? Are they just itching to spend it? if they can't get the policy right, they should just strike it. As is, the PO is just not that important. -
2.2
...looked at this again; yeah, it's not a good comparison.
-
-
3
Jay Newton-Small:
Carper is meeting with centrists such as Joe Lieberman, Olympia Snowe, Mary Landrieu, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh and Blanche Lincoln asking them what kind of a trigger they might vote for.
God bless you, Jay Newton-Small, God bless you.
-
4
So the problem is preventing a Democratic filibuster of a Democratic bill, so that the centrists don't join together with the Republicans against the liberals, and vote for cloture so that the bill gets a straight up and down vote:
“What we're asking centrists is: 'What concerns do you need to have addressed to vote for cloture?'” Carper said. “And the two concerns that we hear over and over again is government run and government financed.”
OK, "government run" is what the Republicans say over and over again like jack-in-the-boxes --check. "Government fincanced" is what the health insurance industry complains about over and over again --check.
Yep, they've just got to filibuster and obstruct the business of the Senate.
.
Hmm..."cloture"..."filibuster"..."straight up and down vote"... I'm sure I've read those words somewhere before...The seven Republicans made a commitment to vote against a nuclear maneuver for the rest of this Congress. The seven Democrats agreed to reserve filibusters against judicial nominees to "extraordinary" cases, which aptly captures the extraordinary nature of filibusters themselves. The two sides compromised...Nelson said[,] "Now the Senate can move forward and get to important business."
So...the last time it was beautiful and principled for centrist Democrats to join together with Republicans in an orgy of bipartisanship, it was to promise not to filibuster, so that "important business" could proceed.
.
Now, of course, they absolutely must filibuster health care reform, so that they can hold the flag of bipartisanship high once again (and satisfy the DLC's corporate "partners", just like all principled Third Way Democrats do), and important business cannot proceed.
.
Centrists do have principles, but just like conservatives' opposition to big government (except when spying on citizens en masse or torturing "suspects" in secret), those principles certainly do appear rather contradictory at times to folks of different political persuasions. -
5
...I should add that maybe the liberals should have been doing some filibuster threats of their own, since they're getting a crap deal out of health care reform.
.
Why don't they ever do that? Is it because they're not in leadership positions? Teddy's gone? They're all terrified of Rahm & Obama? What?
.
Come to think of it, it seems like all of us might be getting a crap deal out of health care reform once the centrists and Republicans get done with it...-
5.1
Maybe they would be satisfied with the beginning of the Slippery Slope the Republicans keep warning everyone about. Something being better than nothing, in other words.
-
-
6
There would be an angel investment footed by the taxpayers to be eventually repaid and reserves set to protect against taxpayer bailouts.
.
What is this? And am I correct in feeling suspicious about it?-
6.1
But we're already paying for a bunch of other useless crap (like Wall Street) so I guess go ahead and add onto the tab.
-
-
7
They should call it the "mass exodus of liberals from the Democratic party trigger."
-
7.1
They should call it the "mass exodus of liberals from the Democratic party trigger."
Does anyone else find it exceedingly ironic that in the same sort of environment which is pitting the hard-right Republicans against more moderate Republicans (vis-a-vis NY-23, Palin, etc), we can already see the same thing happening on the Left? Those that would actually make due on their threats to stay home based on their principles are really no difference than the same Republicans who would be willing to sink the Right in the same crusade.
.
Truly two sides of the same coin. -
7.2
"Truly two sides of the same coin."
.
Comparing liberals, to tea baggers, is a false analogy, in my opinion, but perhaps you can detail what must be a very long list of similarities the two share, that cause you to conclude that they are equal to each other.
.
At the same time, please explain why "centrists", who refuse to compromise, are any different than the other two groups. Liberals are the only ones who have compromised at all, from what I see. Personally, I refuse to be a member of a party that is led by the likes of Joe Lieberman.
.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation. -
7.3
Derek:
They should call it the "mass exodus of liberals from the Democratic party trigger."
That's a funny line, but no, that's not what it should be called.
.
It should be called the "exodus of DLC centrists from the Democratic party trigger", if we had enough smarts to take the party back from them.
.
We're going to lose in 2010. Americans are not going to be satisfied with health care reform, should it pass. Democrats are going to be blamed.
.
Worse, this kind of thing: "pitting the hard-right Republicans against more moderate Republicans (vis-a-vis NY-23, Palin, etc), we can already see the same thing happening on the Left" will be everywhere, which means that we're going to be blamed for Democratic losses, instead of the DLC centrists who gave the American public sh*tty policy and no solution to their problems --who left the place worse than before they came.
.
So when we insist that Democrats implement policies that we know will work, i.e. health care systems that work in the rest of the developed world, and centrist Democrats defy that partisan goal out of principle (and cash), we are setting ourselves up for "crazy wing of the party who doesn't care if they lose politically" comparisons with the popular right (tea partiers or worse)...unless we can see it coming, and act now to stop it.
.
It's not "the Democrats" who are failing the American people, it's New Democrats. It's not liberals who are failing the American people (except perhaps through capitulation to the DLC-ers, and a lack of forethought), it's centrists.
.
So after health care reform passes, and I come home to my wife and kitchen table, and we talk about how scared we are of new taxes, and me losing my job and being subject to the individual mandate, and how "reform" didn't do anything about the fact that I didn't get another raise this year because my employer's premiums went up again, we liberals must do everything in our power so that we're not blamed for this failure, Derek.
.
That means getting ahead of the Village's "the radical, hard-line leftists are sinking the Democrats in 2010" story...the same story that allowed the centrists to take over the party in the first place.
.
There should be an "exodus", alright, but it needs to be them not us, if our beloved country's hardest challenges are to be met.
.
Thanks for reading and considering this, Derek. -
7.4
Stuart as you are aware the health systems that work, were not even on the table and now they are whittling away at the compromise. My guess is they will gut it completely. Why? So they can appease one or two so-called "centrists." There is a valuable lesson in this for liberals, don't let them take your vote for granted. The only reason they can argue that compromise is required, is because they assume liberals will support them, no mater what. If liberals want a voice in the Democratic party, they are going to need to play the same games as the so-called centrists. Demand their demands are met, refuse to compromise and if not satisfied, take their vote somewhere else. The recent election showed another alternative, just stay home.
-
7.5
Comparing liberals, to tea baggers, is a false analogy, in my opinion, but perhaps you can detail what must be a very long list of similarities the two share, that cause you to conclude that they are equal to each other.
It's actually a very short, one-item list. And I already pointed it out in my original post, and you confirmed it with your latest one:
Those that would actually make due on their threats to stay home based on their principles are really no different than the same Republicans who would be willing to sink the Right in the same crusade.
I am not satisfied with the healthcare reform on the table - more can and should have been done. But I am not about to stay home next November out of some misguided form of spite. It's the whole "cutting the nose to spite the face" kind of deal. Who wins when you stay home? The Republicans. Will that bring you any closer to your ideals? No. Your "principled" stand will simply result in another 8-year GWB, and no one can afford that.
-
7.6
redraven937 sorry but one cannot argue that two things are exactly the same, based on a single similarity. To say two things are the same, they have to have many similarities. What you are practicing is the fallacy of the middle ground, where you falsely accuse those to the left or right of you of being extremists and conclude you must be right, because you walk up the middle between them.
-
-
8
Great interview with Rick Perlstein, for those interested:
http://bigthink.com/rickperlstein/big-think-interview-with-rick-perlstein
-
8.1
Nice link, thanks.
.
I enjoyed The Truth About “Libertarian” Republicans and Democrats too.
-
-
9
The ability of the Democratic majority to combine bad politics and bad policy never ceases to amaze me.
-
10
"Centrist" is the new extremism.
Because everybody knows that the status quo is JUST what the doctor ordered.
-
10.1
Thank you, Dirks.
.
Right on the f-ing money, as usual.
-
-
11
Wow, all this supposition to a proposed plan that hasn't even seen the light of day outside of Harry Reid's Office.
.
It must be a conspiracy!! That's it!!
.
"All those bad bad Centrist and Republicans, killing a bill that no one even has a clue as of yet what it contains". -
12
Full list of Carper's accomplishments as a U.S. Senator to follow:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
There you have it.-
12.1
You forgot:
.
.
.
.
and
.There you have it.
-
-
13
Health care reform's been pretty much stripped of most of it's useful features already. (Why didn't anyone in authority push Medicare for All from the get-go?). Time to just put reform back on the to-do list and move on to job creation.
-
14
I think what the Dems really mean is that they want a trigger for health care reform period.
Perhaps that trigger would be after they lose the elections.
They have hashed, bashed this around so much no one likes it.
Time to move on.
-
14.1
"They have hashed, bashed this around so much no one likes it.'
.
My guess is that was their purpose all along. Follow the money. The ones holding up the process are the very folks taking the cash from the vested interests. -
14.2
My guess would be total lack of leadership, and imagination.
-
-
15
They would be better off to just let this thing die now. It isn't going to satisfy anyone, especially those who can help get elected again, if they haven't lost them already.
-
15.1
Yup, Thy had the opportunity and they passed it up. Attention is now on jobs. They are out of work and out of health care. They need work more.
-
-
16
So if these centrists all think the cloture votes are exactly the same as the final vote, why hasn't anyone asked them if they would support just making every single vote require 60 votes? Under their terms they should. Then we can just quit pretending it is a majority rules body.
-
17
Look, to be consistent about this, Carper et al should also demand that we immediately convert Medicare and Social Security into "national co-ops" -- 'cause otherwise they're just more socialism.
Honest to God, the Senate handmaidens of the insurance and pharma companies will do anything to fragment, hamstring or otherwise undercut the bargaining power of a public option. That's all this is about. Labels like "moderate" and "centrist" are meaningless in this context.
And remember, there's ample history to suggest that if Joe Lieberman wants it, it's probably bad for ya. -
18
Sounds great to me.
.
A trigger that will never be pulled for an option like co-ops that will never work.The question remains:
. .. is a cruel joke better than no joke at all? -
19
This is presented as if Reid's proposal is credible as a "compromise".
It is not.
Anyone familiar with how Congress works knows that by giving the States and opt-in or opt-out option really means "you will opt-in or you will lose all of your xxxx federal funding" (fill in the blank). A "trigger" just means they write in requirements that insurance companies cannot meet so the PO will be "triggered".
This has been done many times and they need to be called out on it.
There is absolutely no way that the Senate is going to outright allow anyone to be exempted from a public run health care system. How can a public option work if 20 States opt-out? It couldn't.
That's the point. It might take a few years, but the design of this proposal is to create rhetoric that gives Senators cover for next year's election, but will not change the end result:
They want a single-payer system. Period.
The goal being to say anything and promise the world to get the votes. What's in the bill will guarantee a SP system and no one will really understand the scope and pain (no pun intended) involved in this massive change to our system...until after the 2010 election.
Time and others need to be more skeptical and do their homework so they can challenge these politicians.
There are many changes that can be made and ways to help the uninsured without imploding the system. One of the biggest is missing from this bill: Tort reform. That in itself makes the entire legislation a farse.
-
19.1
I agree libsarescary. Government mandated coverage should be dropped as well.
Most of the things that cause our health care insurance to cost more than it should are due to the government (mandates, restrictions on policies, etc). For example, why should a 23 year old single male have to purchase insurance that covers breast enhancement/reduction? If the insurance companies were allowed to sell the coverage that people want and we were allowed to shop around for the best deal, then competition would cause prices to drop. It seems like common sense to me.
-
-
20
I have news for all of you: It's ALL blood money.
http://lukennedy.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/american-healthcare/
Don't fool yourselves into thinking that it's anything else.
-
21
It looks like Carper accomplished quite a bit more than Obama did as a senator!
-
22
[...] WANDA EILEEN BARZEE, who pleaded guilty on Tuesday to the 2002 kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart ; she was charged with the crime along with her estranged husband Brian David Mitchell, who is set to face a competency hearing on Nov. 30 …More Here [...]
-
23
I disagree with three of Libsarescary's points, but agree with one:
1. A few liberals, but not many, want single payer. Realistically, the corporate interests against it are far stronger. They've successfully blocked any reform of heatlh insurance for decades. Therefore, it is naive to think that a centrist trigger/co-op version is necessarily the first step to single payer.
2. Single payer (which we'll never have anyway) would not be as expensive or painful as what we have. It works far better in Canada and other countries than our present dysfunctional rationed system. We have the 40th best health care system in the world, and yet it's the most expensive.
3. A public option can exist and make a difference on a state-by-state basis. It exists in San Francisco and is pretty much only used by the unemployed.
Where I agree with Libsarescary is the need for tort reform. That would make a little headway in bringing down costs. It's not enough, though. What's REALLY needed is regulation of prices of procedures and pharmaceuticals, as they do in Switzerland and Holland where they've achieved an affordable universal coverage without rationing or single payer.
-
24
[...] manage a failed cloture vote on the bill with the public option in it in order to go to an immediate substitution bill with a trigger in it (what I'm hearing is the most likely route), or c) reconciliation. All tough trails for Reid to [...]
-
25
[...] Nelson is ensuring that none of this monopoly-busting worms its way into anything — not even watered down, useless compromises: [Florida Senator Tom] Carper is meeting with centrists such as Joe Lieberman, Olympia Snowe, Mary [...]
- jnsmall @Marty2634 in 140 characters or less- that's a tall order...! - 1 hour ago
- jnsmall @tgriff7 ha! I didn't know you're real first name is William! oh, Willy, aren't you proud that whales are free? ;-) - 1 hour ago
- jnsmall @mikemadden landmark in terns of the statue of libery or yucca mtn? Me thinks it might be closer it the latter... - 2 hours ago
Most Popular »
- NBC: There Was Never a Conan O'Brien
- Undercover Boss Is Phony and Manipulative. But Don't Hold That Against It.
- NH Poll: Dems Face A Thumpin'
- Barack Obama: Then vs. Now
- Gibbs Mocks Palin, Tea Party Convention
- Irony of the Day
- Paul Ryan Won't Run For Prez In 2012
- Love At First Byte: Your Nerdy Valentine's Day Guide
- Today's Health Care Checkup - GOP Plans Under the Spotlight
- Do You Spend Less than $2,000 Annually on Internet, TV, Cell Phone Service, and Video Games?
- Asian Carp Battle: Foreign Fish Threaten Great Lakes
- Is the Bible Fact or Fiction? Archaeology's Discoveries
- Spain's Troubled Economy: Fears Over Euro Zone Outlook
- Kennewick Man, Archaeology Find: Who Discovered America?
- Tea-Party Convention: Lessons on Palin and the Movement
- Al-Qaeda, Yemen, Wedding: Unlucky Name, Celebration
- Jim Frederick, Black Hearts in Iraq's Triangle of Death
- Venezuela: Chavez Protests at Ball Game Over Electricity
- Marja: Operation Moshtarak Tests Obama's Afghan War Plan
- Why China Needs The U.S. -- And Vice Versa
Quotes of the Day »
RSS