Sane Iranians Attacked
In my continuing effort to not write a word--to not give any additional publicity--to a certain former vice presidential candidate who has "written" a "book" this week, I've gone deeply afield into the Moonian recesses of the Washington Times and looked at an article by Eli Lake, who specializes in middle east reporting and does it a higher level than most of his colleagues at the neo-religious-cult publication. The article, about an Iranian-American advocacy group, the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), has set hearts aflutter with outrage among the usual suspects--the neoconservatives who've been plumping for war with Iran.
I know many of the players involved, in Iran and here, though not very well. They are, so far as I know, the good guys in all this--the people not only trying to find some means to a rapprochment between the U.S. and Iran, but also those who are hoping for a freer, less extreme government in Iran.
Lake's argument seems to be that NIAC has been lobbying for those goals without declaring itself as a lobbying organization. I'm not an expert on lobbying law, but even if Lake has caught NIAC in the act of imitating AIPAC without a license, this is a misdemeanor at best.
But it is important to take a look at some of the things that NIAC and its leader, Trita Parsi, have been accused of...
To start with, I know Parsi, not well, and I've found him to be an eminently reasonable voice on US-Iranian relations. I also know the two Iranian businessmen involved in the case, Siamak Namazi and Bijan Khajepour, again not well--I interviewed both when I visited Iran in 2001. They had set up a consulting firm on the assumption that, with the moderate Mohammed Khatami in charge, relations between Iran and the rest of the world would be improving dramatically. They were wrong. Namazi has left Iran and Khajepour, a diabetic, was arrested and thrown in jail after the June 12 elections.
These are not suspicious characters. The fact that Parsi was in contact with them is a sign that he was on the right track--consulting with the members of the Iranian business community most threatening to the Khamenei Regime, i.e. those who wanted closer relations with the rest of the world. As we've seen in recent months, the regime finds such relationships subversive. So do I, so should you. If the Supreme Leader is denied his Satans, Great and Small, he loses the rationale--and the public constituency--for repression.
Another suspicious character here is Javad Zarif, Iran's former UN Ambassador, whom I also know fairly well. Parsi apparently set up some meetings between Zarif and members of Congress. Zarif was the reformer Khatami's designated Ambassador. He was replaced by Ahmadinejad, undoubtedly because he was too moderate. When I was in Iran in June, mutual friends advised me not to contact Zarif, since he was in a delicate position and email exchanges with Americans might jeopardize his safety. I hope he is safe. In my experience, he was a strong advocate for his country, but also someone who hoped for better relations with us. Certainly, meetings with Iranians like Zarif could only improve the knowledge and nuance of U.S. members of Congress. I'm glad Trita Parsi set them up.
I'm in disagreement with NIAC on a third area of controversy. There are emails that indicate NIAC was opposed to having Dennis Ross as the U.S. negotiator with Iran, since he had a reputation as a hard-liner. These are private emails; the leaders of NIAC have a right to their opinions. But I don't think NIAC should have a dog in that hunt. But then, I'm sure there are emails extant that indicate leaders of AIPAC were not so thrilled about George Mitchell being named Middle East negotiator (and, indeed, hoping that Ross was named to that spot instead). I'm glad that the Obama Administration had the wisdom to make both NIAC and AIPAC unhappy in this case. I also believe that if NIAC is anywhere near the bright line when it comes to lobbying, it should register as a lobbying organization.
But the bottom line is this: NIAC favors sanity in the US-Iran relationship. It is no friend of the Iranian regime. (Parsi told me last summer that it was too dangerous for him to even visit Iran.) It criticized the regime after the June 12 elections. Its friends--people like Namazi, Bhajepour and Zarif--are those who are considered suspicious by the regime. But it also opposes the "bomb, bomb Iran" policies favored by the neoconservatives, who are now attempting to make NIAC radioactive. This seems a terrible perversion of the truth about the organization and its leader.
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Eli Lake, who specializes in middle east reporting and does it a higher level than most of his colleagues at the neo-religious-cult publication.
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Well if that isn't the soft bigotry of low expectations, I don't know what is.
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Thanks for the post. Neoconservatives thrive on classifying people as enemies. The notion of Iranians who don't like the Iranian regime bothers them, because they want to incinerate Iran. So they try to smear them and destroy their reputations. Don't let them get away with it.-
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Holy cow-- had you seen the latest about the implosion of the Moonie Times? This just went up at TPM: http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/washington-times-faces-eeoc-complaint-from-editor-richard-miniter.php
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Washington Times editorial page editor Richard Miniter is filing a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission against the paper today, alleging discrimination based on age, disability, and religion -- being forced to attend a Unification Church mass wedding -- and he will ask the government to enjoin the Times' assets, his lawyer tells TPM. -
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Are you out of your mind? You say neocons don't like the idea of Iranian citizens agreeing with them. On what planet does that make any sense?
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The planet where neoconservatives prefer military action over all other forms of statecraft, ie, Earth.
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If you want to paint the picture of "Iran bad, US good" and you need it so heavily simplified that even the people who can't form more complex thoughts than those 4 words, you can't have the claim that there might be an "Iranian" who's not "bad" as it might hurt people's head. Kinda like how "I think we should freeze settlement building because it's being used as a method of imperialism" makes you anti-semetic.
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That said, I do disagree with you, Elvis: Republicans can stand Iranians who agree with them. Republicans just can't stand the thought of a moderate. If an Iranian showed up that said "let's nuke Tehran and show them who's boss", Republicans would run him for President and crow about their diversity and how being Muslim doesn't actually make you a terrorist and the birth certificate from Tehran is fake while the birth certificate in Fargo is absolutely legitimate and everyone who says otherwise is against the troops and.... -
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Ahmed Chalabi.
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I concede the point, forgottenlord. You're obviously correct.
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Now, FWIW, no actual Iraqis living in Iraq wanted a US invasion and occupation, just as no actual Iranians want a US military strike, or sanctions. (Not a surprise-- even the most militant Glenn-Beck-listening teabagger, quaking in his boots because Obama-enabled fascism and socialism are hiding outside his window, doesn't want China to invade the US to solve his problems). So neoconservatives will continue to smear any and all Iranians. -
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"Republicans would run him for President and crow about their diversity "
Outstanding! You got it half right. They'd probably make a fine political candidate but forget about the diversity crap. We are the party of Dr Martin Luther King. We are color blind. That racial spoils and class divisions are a liberal game where the color of your skin is all that matters.
You and Joe have us neocons all wrong. I don't want the US to invade Iran. Lets give the Jews their due. When it comes to beating the snot out of muslims they're the pro's. GWB invested a fortune in the Israeli Air force for just this purpose. Think of how bad this would be for Iran. It's one thing for Iran to be embarrased by the greatest superpower in the history of civilization. But think of the humiliation of 80M Persians getting humiliated by 5M Jews.
We'll nominate said Iranian dude for our Presidential spot of Netanyahu as VP.
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Joe, denigrating the Washington Times in such a manner makes your blog post simply untrustworthy.
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So far as AIPAC, the key is that NIAC "favors sanity in the US-Iran relationship". If AIPAC is consistent on any matter, it is oposition to sanity.
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"If AIPAC is consistent on any matter, it is oposition to sanity."
The AIPAC gets too much credit for widespread support of Israel from Ameircans but they have done an outstanding job just the same.
Look at where Israel is today versus 2001 when Clinton left office. Israel is in relative peace with the WB and thanks to the security fence Israel is safe and very prosperous. Sharon was elected due to Clintons failures and he immediately strengthened the military and the economy (supply-side tax cuts) and persued a very aggressive strategy of taking out the militant leadership. This is the same counter-terrorism policy Petraeus adapted in Iraq and Afghanistan heartily embraced by Obama.
GWB invested heavily to being Israeli tools, tactics and training up to USA standards thust Israel remains almost invincible within the region. In two years they'll pass the EU-3 in per capita incomes and within a decade exceed them by 25% You have to appreciate how far Israel has come since Bill Clinton left the infatada and AIPAC has to get some of the credit.
I'd love for Joe or anyone to explain.why he directs so much bile at the jewish lobby when the strongest support for Israel comes from conservatives in general and evangelicals in particular. They're not exactly clients of the jewish lobby
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Pointing to rdw, I rest my case.
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formerlyjames,
Look up the per capita GDP tables yourself at CIA factbook yourself. Israel has been growing at nearly 3x's the rate of the EU-3. Just consider how this tech savvy counter-insurgency mastering wizzards of trade are faring in this post 9/11 world. Think India and China are good markets?
Check out the kill ratio in Gaza. Take out friendly fire and it was 150 to 1.
This has been a great decade for Israel. Today it's not possible for a mule in the WB to strap on a bomb and go looking for a little jewish girl in a mall to kill. There's a fence and separation. Good fences make good neighbors.
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Israel is in relative peace with the WB and thanks to the security fence Israel is safe and very prosperous.
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I don't consider treating Palestinians as lawless animals "peace". The separation barrier and settlements are a blight upon Israel's reputation. 150:1 kill ratio? So we are judging a country by how many of their neighbors they can kill? You should have just said "I don't give a damn how many Palestinians die". -
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I don't give a damn about how many hamas terrorists die. If there are 1,000,000 of them I'd like to see 1,000,000 dead bodies.
I cite the per capital income data and kill ratio because these things rarely end via negotiation. One side has to lose and the sooner they realize it the better for everyone. Wars are won when one side becomes stronger and tries harder than the other and strength requires the best weapons and the smartest minds using them and both things cost money. Todays 150-1 kill ratio will be 180 to 1 with the next generation of weapons and then 210 to 1 a few years later.
Gaza is a hole because Gazans made it a hole. Someday they will choose to rejoin the civilized world and it will become a med resort. For now Hamas is licking it's wounds and wondering if they can survive another war. The next time the Jew might segment Gaza and allow Fatah to come on and clear out Hamas one section at a time untl Gaza is again part of the West Bank. As you know Arab military units don't follow the same rules of war. Hamas understands if Israel allows Fatah to 'investigate' Hamas will not survive.
If you project the trends of the period since the infatada you'll see this can only end one way. GWB and Sharon were the best thing that happened to Israel. There won't be another infatada. If Hamas starts one Israel won't negotiate with them. Israel will crush them for Fatah to eliminate them.
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Is NIAC in any way connected to the recent seizure of assets by the Feds with the Alvi Foundation?
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I didn't realize the Iranians had so many "special interest" groups within our own borders.
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“In my continuing effort to not write a word--to not give any additional publicity--to a certain former vice presidential candidate who has "written" a "book" this week…”
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Lieberman wrote a book? -
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Joe,
Your effort not to give Sarah any publicity is designed to do what? She did Oprah yesterday and an hour of Limbaugh today and the tour doesn't start until tomorrow. You can't seriously think she'll sell one less book? You come off as childish and petty.
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Joe,
The AIPAC had no problem with either George Mtchell or Hillary Clinton because only Obama matters. They disagree streneously with Obama but fortunate he's been so inept he's only dug a hole and he's determined to make deeper. Only one.person could give BiBi the stage to imitate Gandhi in so carefree a manner,. AIPAC gets it's amateur hour in the WH and they prefer having adults like George Mitchell around.
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Exactly what makes BO inept in this area?
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"Exactly what makes BO inept in this area?"
Everything!
Who decided to start out with the demand Israel stop ALL settlement construction? Who didn't know that would be very unpopular in Israel and provide Netanyahu the perfect platform to oppose Obama while appearing to be Ganhdi driving his own polls up and Obama's down? Who didn't know that once Abbas and the Palestinians supported Obama no the no settlement demand there would be no going back? Who then reversed course anbd said, "nevermind"? Who now has pissed off.all of Islam for being so weak with the Jews?
Obama has been a buffoon. Netanyahu has run a clinic on him. Abbas has learned not to trust him. All of the progress in Palestine is being managed outside US influence. Obama's support in Israel is in the single digits. Bill Clinton was in Jerusalem two days ago and actually told the auridence, "Obama doesn't hate you". Why would you think he felt the need to tell them this?
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Who decided to start out with the demand Israel stop ALL settlement construction?
Oh, I don't know, everyone, including the UN (multiple times)?
Halting settlement construction has ALWAYS been a condition for peace. Imagine if Mexico kept building cities in Texas and annexing large swaths of land and then building huge concrete barriers around that land to ensure the claim lasted.
You said earlier that a good fence makes for good neighbors. Is that true if one of the neighbors keeps moving that fence deeper onto the other's property?
The WB is not Israeli land. Period. Obama was right to demand the halt of settlement construction.
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Israel has been building settlements in the WB for two decades and during that time negotiating with the Palestinians. There's no reason not to negotiate now.
That is except for the fact Abbas has no power and the terrorists groups have not been defeated. This can only end when the terrorists have been killed. That's why GWB wisely supported Israels amazing defense buildup and moves to secure it's borders.
As far as that land Jordan went to war with Israel and lost. They will eventually agree to land swaps so each side has roughly the same aceage. The Palestinians can negotiate now or later but we know how this ends.
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Re: rdw56's comment "This can only end when the terrorists have been killed:
The Israeli state is a terrorist state founded by and led by Jewish supremacists, terrorists, and gangsters (Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Shamir, Begin, Sharon, Dayan--to name a few). There can be no peace with Zionism.
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Repressive governments that limit free speech: Cuba, Iran, Myanmar, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc...the amount of business we do with each is relatively based on how large it is.
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[...] #6: Joe Klein at Swampland at [...]
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Klein forgot to mention the real reason why the NeoCons (and the terrorist Iranian dissident cult, the MEK) are going after NIAC and Trita Parsi: because Ambassador Limbert, a former US embassy hostage, and boardmember of NIAC, was appointed by Obama to a top level State Department position on Iran. Naturally, the Israelis want only alumni of pro-Israeli lobbies -- such as Ross -- in policy-making positions. Since they don't have any goods on Limbert, the best they can do is guilt-by-association: tar NIAC.
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Joe Klein is not addressing the core issues. Iran is the leading state sponsor of terrorism in the world, has effectively taken over Lebanon, wrecks the prospects for the Palestinians by supporting Hamas and Islamic Jihad and is hellbent on acquiring a nuclear weapon to back up the rest of their work. The Europeans have spent years engaging Iran and trying to talk them out of it to no avail. At this point, only the pressure of meaningful sanctions is going to have an impact. No one in the mainstream is talking about bombing. Sanctions are key and NIAC is one of the most prominient opponents of that. THIS is the issue about NIAC, not whether Joe has found this or that person to be a "nice guy."
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The problem with sanctions is without China and Russia they'e useless. We need to also do in Iran what we did in Afghanistan in supporting dissident groups.
A month ago or more there was a suicide bombing at a meeting of top Republican Guard Generals. I believe Iran is 51% Persian and that 49% would like to self-rule. Iran was quick to supply IEDs in Iraq. By all means let's return the favor.
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Sanctions with Russian and China would be powerful, but that's not going to happen. But sanctions without Russia and China can work as well. Iran's largest trading partner is Germany. Iran depends on imports for 40% of its gasoline and among its top five suppliers are British Petroleum and the French company Total. If the Europeans and Japanese joined America in tough sanctions, a lot could be accomplished without Russia and China. When Iran gets a nuclear bomb, it will change the world for the much worse. As much of the world as possible needs to step up here.
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I don't disagree with your point but can't see Obama doing this. He's a hard core lefty. He despises American power. It took Bush 43 days after 9/11 to take Kabul. It's about 90 days since Mcchrystal asked for more troops and he's still two weeks from deciding. This guy can't make hard decisions.
As far as Iran getting the bomb I'm not as concerned as you and so many others. Israel has 5 dolphin class subs and 200 nukes. The mad mullahs are not suicidal. They are power mad. To attack Israel, or to allow Israel to be attack means they will be annihilated. I think the bomb is for prestige within Islam and eventual leadership of Islam and for Islam over more of the world. They know Europe can be bullied.
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Bush took Kabul with only 24,000 troops, Obama is looking at a request for twice that many. Bush had to worry about which cities to capture first, Obama has to worry about how to best utilize his forces to stabilize the country. Bush only had to worry about overthrowing the old government, Obama's worrying about how to work with the current government. Thank you for your incredible level of simplification of the difficulties.
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"Thank you for your incredible level of simplification of the difficulties"
Obama inherited an entire infrastructure Bush had to create, Everything looks simpler in the rear view mirror. The fact remains Obama is dithering. He's clearly in over his head. He has no executive experience now compounded with no military experience. It's paralysis by analysis. He has an accomplished defense team with a record of accomplishment far beyond his own.
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We now know that the attacks on NIAC were prompted by Kenneth Timmerman, a first-line Iran attacker, and neoconservative. People like Timmerman, whose book /Countdown to Crisis: The Coming Nuclear Confrontation with Iran/ is a call to violent action against Iran, are trying to head the United States into another Middle East War. Timmerman and his well-funded ilk are opposed to anything that will calm relations between the United States and Iran, and they work 24/7 to sabotage the kind of sensible realistic suggestions made by NIAC. God help us!
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It is interesting that we go out of our way to arm Israel up to the teeth including nuclear arsenal, for free.
Next we pay $900 million to repair the damage that Israel has inflicted on Gaza schools, hospitals, and roads using our free weapons, and quickly re-supply them with more free weapons.
Then, we go out of our way almost bombing Iran, while we are fighting two other unnecessary wars for Israel, to prevent Iran from enriching, which is their IAEA given right!
Finally, Israel kills our citizens all the time without any consequences!Where is America's national interest in all this!?
This is madness! Stop the Israeli occupation of our government, Congress and media!
Stop giving away our tax dollars to Israel!
Stop fighting Israel's wars with our treasury and blood of our young men and women!
It is time to let UN and Security Council takes its course and pass some fair resolutions both on Iran and Israel as it sees it fit, without us pressuring or vetoing it.
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Israel is the only democracy in the region.
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From Guardian regarding how some so-called "Americans" are willing to jeopardize our national security for the benefits of Israel
"Within the US Israel exploits a willing circle of Likudist advocacy groups and thinktanks – such as the Washington Institute for Near East Peace, the Israel Project, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs as well as Aipac itself – that are closely scripted and co-ordinate their political message with Israeli diplomats. While some of these groups deny such a close affiliation, there is proof of scripting and amplification of the Israeli government's agenda. And of course there may be cases in which the organisations know the needs of their patron so well that they need no prompting.In another example, Israeli diplomats monitored and encouraged a member of Congress to host an anti-Iranian conference that would advocate Israel's message of sanctions (and more).
Israel, along with enablers like Aipac, has not shrunk from hounding its critics. One peace activist in the US so angered Israeli authorities that he was driven from a job through a whispering campaign in the community, which also included a disparaging article leaked to a willing reporter.
The level of hubris necessary to pull this off is astonishing. Fresh off the dismissal of the Rosen-Weissman spy charges involving its own employees, Aipac is flexing its political muscle and reminding the world of its resurgence. It does this through a combination of manipulation, public lobbying and punishment of its enemies.
We in the US must be prepared to resist. We must protect ourselves from Israel's propaganda offensive ginning up war with Iran. We must encourage President Obama to stay strong in his commitment to Israeli-Arab peace, whether or not Israel is a willing partner. Keeping our eyes on the prize of peace is going to be the hardest challenge of all, because the Netanyahu government is doing everything it can to divert the world's attention."
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Re: rdw56's comment that "Israel is the only democracy in the region":
Oh, so Israel has extended democratic rights to the millions of Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank? The Jews from the U.S., Europe, and South Africa (many of them pathological and murderous in their hatred of all Goyim) who live there have 100 times more rights than the native inhabitants. Yeah sure, this is democracy, Zionist style. When a Zionist speaks, a Zionist lies.
The only democracy in the region is Cyprus (and Turkey is a "quasi-democracy").
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Re: rdw56's comment that "Israel is the only democracy in the region":
Oh, so Israel has extended democratic rights to the millions of Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank? The Jews from the U.S., Europe, and South Africa (many of them pathological and murderous in their hatred of all "Goyim") who live there have 100 times more rights than the native inhabitants. Yeah sure, this is democracy, Zionist style. When a Zionist speaks, a Zionist lies.
The only democracy in the region is Cyprus (and Turkey is a "quasi-democracy").
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rdw56,
You know sometimes some of you Americans really surprise me. I really feel sorry for you and your likes. Clearly, you have no morals and ethical stand points in your life. I guess I can't put the blame only on you. You were probably brainwashed by CNN, the community you lived in and the family that raised you.
As I was reading through the blog, no other individual were as offensive as you were. Thus, I thought to let you know that NO ONE has the right to ever say the worthless words that you just threw out about others.
I DON'T care who you are, what your status is and who you are doing it for. The thing that matters to me is to defend and speak for those who can't face your offences and discriminative judgment:
“Gaza is a hole because Gazans made it a hole.”
>>>loooooooooooool I wonder if you have ever gone to any type of schools because clearly, you don't even understand the definition of “hole”. Gaza is not a hole, has never been and will never be one. I think you and Israel are sinking in the hole of your immorality.“The next time the Jew might segment Gaza…”
>>>This must be really an enjoyment to you to watch Gazans being killed. But remember Don't EVER try to involve Jews in this s…. Jews are not the one who did segment Gaza or murdered Gazans. It is the nasty ISRAELI Government who massacres children and innocent women and men in there and of course with the support of U.S.“This can only end when the terrorists have been killed.”
>>> YOU ARE MORE THAN RIGHT! The most brutal, nastiest terrorists in the world are the Israeli government and army!! And I am sure I will be waking up one day, not very far, that Gazans breathe normal air and that those nasty Israelis murderer are not “killed” but are in such a pain that they wish they were killed. I will guarantee you.“Iran is the leading state sponsor of terrorism in the world,…”
You know what; your worthless words against my country DON'T bother me. You Americans WISH to be us. I am sorry!! You dream to be because you will never be.Have you ever heard of the word “dictionary”? The definition of the terrorist is “a person who terrorizes or frightens others”.
Is this familiar to you at all? Let me remind you. When I read this definition, the FIRST terrorizing countries that come to my mind are Israel and U.S. You are delusional!!! Wake up and look around of what nasty things your government Did and still Does.DO YOU HAVE A FAMILY? Have you ever had a mother who loved you? Were you ever pregnant with the child of your life? Did you ever care for your children? Did you even have ONE, just one person who cares for you? Do you ever know how does it feel to sleep with this fear that you won't be waking up tomorrow or that there is no tomorrow????????
These are just some of the 10^infinity questions that Iraqis want the answers to. Hasn't this been enough for you to watch those Iraqi children getting murdered with your own countrymen hands? U.S. government and officials are as malevolent as Israelis. They all share the same vicious blood, the blood of innocent people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza and UNCOUNTABLE numbers of other innocent people.
What would youuu dooo if your loved ones were raped, beaten and then bombarded to deathhhh? What would you do if you would witness your child being segmented from bombs bursting on the head?
“At this point, only the pressure of meaningful sanctions is going to have an impact.”
>>> I have never ever been disgusted with anyone in my whole life than I am with you now. Let me tell you something. You, being an American, do not give you any right to bully and humiliate others and take them to verdicts of hell. THIS IS A CRIME to kill and torture normal citizens of any nation to death and with violence. This is what your egotistical governments have been doing since Kennedy's death. He was the only president of this country that I have ever trusted. All others were and are untrustworthy.To us, those who VOTE for sanctions against any country ARE HITLERS. The only difference is that Hitler killed and forgot to clean after. Your government, however, do it differently. They do the nastiest things in the world and get away with it. Killing for American government is like watching a Football game.
U.S. has been warned by Europeans of their crime. If the government does not stop bullying others, they will face ICC soon and not very far from today. I don't think you would like to see that day.
“Israel has 5 dolphin class subs and 200 nukes.”
>>> looooooool You are really keep me entertained with your sweet knowledge. This is the spit in the face. Do you see how you just acknowledged Israel being the “terrorist”?By the way, have you ever heard of Hiroshima? Go to UN and look at the pictures on the wall to see what did
your country did to those people.“I think the bomb is prestige within Islam…”
Do you make your mom proud everyday like this????? If I knew you, I would nominate you for the Nobel price. Obama should have not got it. You should have.
I am not a racist. I also don't care if there are toooo many of you in America.Let me enlighten you about who Europeans really are. They are 10000000000000000 times more civilized than you are. They have history and you don't. They have morals and know killing is not OK. They are educated about not only their own people and country, but also about millions of other nations.
Europeans are not the ones who are bullied; you and your people are the ones who have been bullied by smart brutal Israelis for decades. I thought slavery ended. But certainly it has not. Look at you. How could you let your family be of a slave of terrorists, murderers, torturers and human traffickers?
Timmerman, his folks and you are no one to us who seek peace. A trash wordy book does not make a trashy person trashier. A book can't make a moral person immoral.
You are just one of the many who support violence in all bearings. But, there is a “but”: how can you? What do you gain from Iraqi and Afghani children being raped and murdered?
I believe in karma! There is no way out! Karma will catch all of us, depending on what, how and where we have been doing it! I am 100 to the billions sure that whatever goes around, come around! It may not happen immediately, but it will happen sometime and some day!
Remember controlling others, taking them for granted and using them as weapons are by no means Okay! Bear in mind, if we employ them as bludgeons, if they seize us, they will hit back! Humans never fail to remember one another cruelties! If they do, they are not then normal.
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"Thus, I thought to let you know that NO ONE has the right to ever say the worthless words that you just threw out about others."
Let me guess, you are a life long liberal dedicated to free speech. Meaning you are free to speak and I am free to listen.
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"U.S. has been warned by Europeans of their crime. If the government does not stop bullying others, they will face ICC soon and not very far from today. I don't think you would like to see that day. "
Europe is an economic entity with only marginal diplomatic power. They can only scare themselves. The folks that gave us imperialism, WWI, WWII and the holocaust won't be lecturing anyone on anything nor ordering anyone about.
As the US and Israel continue to invest in military R&D at vastly higher rates Europe will only become less influencial. They have been useless in Afghanistan. That is a war they claim to support yet bar their soldiers from fighting. I can assure you, if and when it comes time to return that favor, we will do so.
THe real key in looking at Israel is to consider the economics. Sharon copied Reagan who buried the USSR economically. Israel was growing at 3x's the rate of the EU-3 and on schedule to pass them in 2011 in per capital income and then just keep on widening that gap. I believe it was 2007 Israel passed France as a leading arms supplier into 4th place. They are of course doing this to widen the funding sources for their military and build diplomatic support.
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“Let me guess, you are a life long liberal dedicated to free speech. Meaning you are free to speak and I am free to listen.”
>>>Of course! You know I am not only free to speak. As soon as I find a way, I will act against these crimes. I am sure the world knows about who really U.S. and Israeli governments are and that why they kill for fun. But, I PROMISE you I will not stop letting others to know who the real terrorists are.
>>>By the way, the deaf can't listen.
“They have been useless in Afghanistan.”
looool I am sorry but Europeans are not this stupid to involve themselves in murdering others. They are not used to killings.“I can assure you, if and when it comes time to return that favor, we will do so.”
>>>loooool I never said you don't. You are used to killing and a killer is a killer. No one can change the psychopath personality of individuals like Hitler. You know why they kill more than any other government in the world; for money, oil and resentment of people enjoying their normal life.
“The USA has a constitution. The ICC is irrelevant.”
>>>loooooooooool US. has constitution????? Really? Oh, you mean constitution of massacre? mmm. As Einestein says “It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”Well, don't worry about ICC. You are toooo far from this to even understand what ICC really is, what they do and who they take in. I know it is hard for people like you to face their violent criminal actions in the international human rights court. But, unfortunately, there is no way out. “To every action there is always opposed an
equal and opposite reaction.”“Israel-Palestine”
>>>In Middle East, there is no other massacre than what Israelis have been doing in the past century. And ANYONE, who has hands in helping Israelis kill, are themselves brutal slaughterers.
Palestine DOES not need Israeli's help to get rid of Hamas. This is the exact case with respect to what the Bush government did in Iraq. Iraq never had a nuclear bomb. U.S. invaded those innocent people and killed them with bombs in the most sadistic way that no other despot has ever done, just in name of nuclear weapons, just as they brainwash normal American citizens with the same trashy scheme about Iran. If the world should be scared of anyone, it must be U.S. and Israel because history tells it all. Once you kill, you kill forever, no matter who the victim is.If U.S had this intention of saving Iraqis from Saddam's hands, they could easily do it WITHOUT ANY KILLINGS. But, we all know that saving Iraqis was not their intention. Iraqi were killed in Saddam's hands. They did not need Americans to come and help killing them.
“Hiroshima”
>>>I think bombarding is pleasuring U.S., bombarding of inncoent people. Hiroshima was not a “battle”. looooool I am surprised that you native speakers do not even know what are the meanings to so many of your English words. Hiroshima was a mass murder. Whatever Japanese did CAN NOT be compared in any sense with what U.S has done to the world.“…but necessary and saved lives.”????
>>>looool Oh, so Americans could not select their other fantastic bombs as gifts to Japanese? Why they had to kill with nuclear bombsss??? Btw, Pearl Harbor was not part of America. U.S. should have minded its own business. This had nothing to do with U.S. The same thing as they are doing for Israel.The sad thing is that ONLY Americans think they are a HERO. Sadly, NO OTHER NATIONS in the world think of America as a HERO, rather they know America as
the most vicious bullier.Knowing that America has made a mistake is OK. BUT, it is not tolerable to repeat the same mistake over and over again in the name of terrorism when their action is itself nothing but what a terrorist normally does. U.S. military do not do suicide bombing like Islamic extremist. Their way of terror is to pick up the bomb and drop it.
>>>loool IF “Bomb is a prestige” in Islam, Bombing is a prestige in U.S.!!!!! Having the bomb is OK. But dropping it over people who have done nothing wrong is not OK.
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22.2
“Let me guess, you are a life long liberal dedicated to free speech. Meaning you are free to speak and I am free to listen.”
>>>Of course! You know I am not only free to speak. As soon as I find a way, I will act against these crimes. I am sure the world knows about who really U.S. and Israeli governments are and that why they kill for fun. But, I PROMISE you I will not stop letting others to know who the real terrorists are.
By the way, the deaf can't listen.“They have been useless in Afghanistan.”
>>>looool I am sorry but Europeans are not this stupid to involve themselves in murdering others. They are not used to killings.
“I can assure you, if and when it comes time to return that favor, we will do so.”
>>>loooool I never said you don't. You are used to killing and a killer is a killer. No one can change the psychopath personality of individuals like Hitler. You know why they kill more than any other government in the world; for money, oil and resentment of people enjoying their normal life.
“The USA has a constitution. The ICC is irrelevant.”
>>>loooooooooool US. has constitution????? Really? Oh, you mean constitution of massacre? mmm. As Einestein says “It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
Well, don't worry about ICC. You are toooo far from this to even understand what ICC really is, what they do and who they take in. I know it is hard for U.S. to face their violent criminal actions in the international human rights court. But, unfortunately, there is no way out. “To every action there is always opposed an equal and opposite reaction.”“Israel-Palestine”
>>>In Middle East, there is no other massacre than what Israelis have been doing in the past century. And ANYONE, who has hands in helping Israelis kill, are themselves brutal slaughterers.
Palestine DOES not need Israeli's help to get rid of Hamas. This is the exact case with respect to what the Bush government did in Iraq. Iraq never had a nuclear bomb. U.S. invaded those innocent people and killed them with bombs in the most sadistic way that no other despot has ever done, just in name of nuclear weapons, just as they brainwash normal American citizens with the same trashy scheme about Iran.>>>If U.S. had this tention of saving Iraqis of Saddam's hands, they SURELY COULD DO IT WITHOUT KILLINGS those children. BUT, the world knows that this was not the intention. The intention was for Bush to sleep and wake up in his house with an oil pump!
If the world should be scared of anyone, it must be U.S. and Israel because history tells it all. Once you kill, you kill forever, no matter who the victim is.“Hiroshima”
>>>I think you really have this pleasure of bombarding people. Hiroshima was not a “battle”. looooool I am surprised that you native speakers do not even know what are the meanings to so many of your English words. Hiroshima was a mass murder. Whatever Japanese did CAN NOT be compared in any sense with what U.S has done to the world.>>>“…but necessary and saved lives.”???? looool Oh, so Americans could not select their other fantastic bombs as gifts to Japanese? Why they had to kill with nuclear bombsss??? Btw, Pearl Harbor was not part of America. U.S. should have minded its own business. This had nothing to do with U.S. The same thing as they are doing for Israel.
The sad thing is that ONLY Americans think they are a HERO. Sadly, NO OTHER NATIONS in the world think of America as a HERO, rather they know America as the most vicious bullier.
Knowing that America has made a mistake is OK. BUT, it is not tolerable to repeat the same mistake over and over again in the name of terrorism when their action is itself nothing but what a terrorist normally does. U.S. military do not do suicide bombing like Islamic extremist. Their way of terror is to pick up the bomb and drop it.
>>>loool IF “Bomb is a prestige” in Islam, Bombing is a prestige in U.S.!!!!! Having the bomb is OK. But dropping it over people who have done nothing wrong is not OK. If you kill, it does not matter HOW you kill. See, there was no suicide Islamic extremist who did the "killings in the canal". They were American soldiers, regardless of their religion. Now, should I say that they killed becasue they were extremist Christians??? No, I won't becaue if someone is sick mentally, they are SICK, no matter what their religion is.
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23
U.S. has been warned by Europeans of their crime. If the government does not stop bullying others, they will face ICC soon and not very far from today. I don't think you would like to see that day.
“Israel has 5 dolphin class subs and 200 nukes.”
>>> looooooool You are really keep me entertained with your sweet knowledge. This is the spit in the face. Do you see how you just acknowledged Israel being the “terrorist”?The USA has a constitution. The ICC is irrelevent. The subs are why Iran will never attack Israel nor will they allow one of their bombs into terrorist hands. They would be annihilated. The more interesting news on the subs was Egypt and the Arab league allowing them acess to the Suez Canal.
Israel's diplomatic / military edge here is there are many more disputes in the region besides Israel - Palestine. The Arab world does not want Hamas in Gaza. They understand Fatah is too weak to take on Hamas. The obvious strategy is to rebuild the West Bank and the security infrastructure so they can take on Hamas and then wait for Hamas to provoke Israel. Once Netanyahu understands preparations have been made he goes in and softens up Hamas and then allows Fatah to come in and 'rehabilitate' manageable chunks of Gaza to ensure Hamas is no longer a threat and Iranian influence has been ended. It's a perfectly logical and smart plan. It works for the Arabs, the Palestinians and the Israeli's.
Best case scenario is they now have actual negotiating partners who represent both the Wb and Gaza and they can iron out the remaining difference.
At that point Israel can refocus it's military on Southern Lebanon. In the unlikely event Hezbollah actually attacks Israel we get a repeat of Gaza with Israel crushing the military arm allowing the Northern factions and the lebanonese army to regain control of it's borders. More interesting is Syria. This time they'll interefere at great risk. The repressive minority govt is much unloved by it's people and it's neighbors. Time has not been kind. Their economy sucks. As Israel has been getting richer and stronger Syria becomes poorer. A war with israel would be a total humiliation, Their former arab allies won't think about helping them if they stay allied with Iran.
Netanyahu will not push Syria hard yet. He grows stronger every year while Syria fades. Hard to imagine what they're thinking.
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24
"By the way, have you ever heard of Hiroshima? Go to UN and look at the pictures on the wall to see what did
your country did to those people. "Hiroshima wasn't in the top 10 of deadly battles. We have all kinds of pictures of what we did to those people and we have all kinds of pictures of what the Japanese did to other people. Hilter has become the go to guy for representing evil but the Japanese and Russians were in many ways much worse than Hitler. The think Americans know about Hiroshima is it ended the war and saved millions of lives. Harry S Truman is now ranked in the top 10 American Presidents for that and other smart decisions. Before you get weepy for the Japanese talk to someone from China about Nanking. They'll have a different perspective.
Peter Jennings, the former airhead anchor of ABCNews did a special on the decision to drop that bomb because he wanted to present the leftist view it was unnecessary. He hoped to 'restart' a National Discussion to get Americans to understand we too make mistakes and this was one of them. He got half his wish. It did start a lot of conversation. Little went his way. It generated a ton of interest in the then aging WWII crowd which didn't talk about the war. Liberals whinned incessently about Vietnam. But WWII was a great war against pure evil. America saved Europe and the World and by the war Peter that's my grandpop you are trashing.
At the end of the day the revisiting of WWII was fabulous for historians and history and what Tom Brokow made famous as the Greatest Generation. Peter was savaged and his reputation as pretty but stupid was solidified.
Barak Obama,a product of the far left, is embarrased by Hiroshima. 80% of Americans understand it was horrible but necessary and saved lives. There's a controversy brewing over his plan to travel there and do what comes naturally to him. Apologize for America. But now that his polls are in the toilet some aid might actually get the nerve to tell their messiah, "errrr, maybe not a good idea to take on the Greatest Generation".
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