Eikenberry...and Latest Column
I've known Karl Eikenberry for several years and he is as honorable as they come, and so it's no surprise that he has chosen to run against (most of) the pack, especially his former comrades in the military. This is a man who served two tours in Afghanistan before becoming Ambassador, the man who initiated the training of an Afghan Army. So he knows what he's talking about. His precise recommendations remain classified, but this is one of those rare acts of bureaucratic courage and, whatever your feelings about the war, it should be celebrated. I'm sure the President will carefully consider his point of view.
Meanwhile, as promised yesterday, here are my latest thoughts about the Afghanistan decision.
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"I've known Karl Eikenberry for several years and he is as honorable as they come, and so it's no surprise that he has chosen to run against (most of) the pack, especially his former comrades in the military."
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So, what are you saying? his former comrades in the military aren't 'as honorable as they come' since they supposedly have a different take? why are you making 'honor' the nexus of your argument here. This is the kinda of bluster i despise in people whether i agree with them or not.-
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Agreed.
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No, no, no. I'm on the record--and have been criticized for--the tremendous respect I have for David Petraeus, Stanley McChrystal, Mike Mullen and the others who favor a more robust response in Afghanistan. Each is entirely honorable, to be sure.
But it takes a certain amount of courage--courage based in an intense personal honor--to swim against the tide as Eikenberry as done. I was praising him, not denigrating anyone else.
And, by the way, I may not agree entirely with his recommendations: Regular readers here know that I'm in favor of two more combat brigades for Kandahar city, another brigade for Khost and two training brigade--about 25,000 troops. I'm not confident about that, since I don't have access to the latest intelligence, but it's my best guess after countless conversations with counterinsurgency experts.
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Not that I'm a Klein defender, but sometimes I think commenters can some time get a little too stuck in the weeds. Joe raises a legitimate point and perhaps his honorable comment was an honest, if clumsy, attempt to reassure everyone that Eikenberry is not a kook and therefore his point of view is worthy of our respect. The truth is that so far the debate has consisted of only two sides and either folks are pro-generals or anti war, as if those are the only perspectives. and of course, the media hasn't helped the situation much because they only care about keeping score between the novice president and the military bulls.
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Unfortunately for the generals, Obama has not fallen for the box him in trick, nor has he listened to media calls to play their adversarial games. What we know for sure is that by definition the generals are all hammers so every strategy they produce has fallen short because they will all be based on a strategy to defeat nails. But perhaps because this president has challenged that conventional wisdom and refused to fall for the old rope a dope he has inspired one man to stand up and go against the tide. Eikenberry recognizing the inherent bias of warriors is looking at this with the experience of a warrior but also through the civilian eye he now possesses as ambassador and is saying that the military conventional wisdom just will not do.
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Make no mistake about it, breaking from tradition is a very courageous stand to take. Especially in this town, going against his former cohort means that he is essentially a whistle blower or at least he will be treated as such. So now he is liable to suffer all of the same kind of slings and arrows and innuendo from the right, who wants to wage war at all costs and from his former cohort of the military mighty who will see this as betrayal. So I for one agree with Joe that his courage should be applauded. Stepping out from behind the safety of conventional wisdom is rare and in this town inherently dangerous. -
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This is a silly "gotcha" quibble that really misses the point. If I say "Obama is as honorable as they come" am I saying lupercal5 is therefore dishonorable? Why don't you look at the substance of JK's post and not just try to trip him up on (phony) controversies?
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Thanks for clarifying, JK, but your original post was fine. -
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Joe Klein:
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Thanks so very much for clarifying your post in response to commentary, I understand now what you meant. -
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i take strong issue with characterizations that i play 'gotcha' games or that i am caught in the weeds here. I fully understand JK's explanations. But i also noticed that you all commented after he explained his honorable purpose. I don't think i have hinted that i adhere to standard political diatribes i see too commonly here. I've been on the record as sympathetic to gay marriage because it involves real human lives. i've been also on the record as not a particular fan of the public option if it means health reform does not pass. Not because i don't like it. Far from it. But because i believe the sum is greater than its parts. I've been on record as opposed to Iraq but in support of overwhelming force 100,000+ plus troops in Afghanistan for a very specific mission for a very limited amount of time (3 years). After which no matter the outcome, we start a phased withdrawal for 3 years. (will not work with gov't in afghanistan).
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So my beef isn't some sort of ad hominem attack on joe because i just can't stand his views or don't have the intellectual honesty to appreciate his differences with me.
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It's just that all too often, the foreign policy or the so-called 'national security' political elite operates in a blustery of a dichotomy that says there is only one right answer and if you don't adhere to it, you clearly don't care about your fellow countrymen enough, or you're lacking in courage and honor. And all too often, it's accepted. And all too often, Joe has fallen for that train of thought.
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I have read nearly every single column joe's written within the past 2 years. And i think highly of him for deigning lower himself to answer my query. And the passion he put into it is quite commendable. But even he appreciates my point because he responded honestly and probably will not project that false dichotomy in his next 2 posts. And if that's worth a public pillorying of me, then im willing to oblige.
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There is a time for war and there is a time for peace. I believe that the U.S.'s involvement in Afghanastan has come and gone and it is now time to withdraw from that country other than a small group to undo the damage that was done and to try to give back to the people and country a semblance of stability -- both economic and educational for the children and women. They must figure out their own way to governance for it to have any real, lasting effect. Most of us know intuitively it is time to pull out and go home. The time has long past for our involvement in that country.
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I agree. It's time to get out of this godforsaken shi!hole of a country. We need to build our embassy, leave enough troops behind to guard it and train the Afghans and bring the rest home. We could easily pay for health care for every American if we would stop spending so much money invading other countries.
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From the media: leak, leak, leak, drip
From the commenters: nit, nit, nit, pick -
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Scott Johnson at Powerline has identified Joe Klein as "the venerable leftist madman". Klein is most definitely a leftist madman, but he's one of the least "venerable" leftist madmen in history.
MUST READ: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/11/024937.php
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Both McChrystal and Petraeus went public with their recommendations. Eikenberry has done the same. At one level this is a fight between DOD and State: not to the death stuff, more like a corrective to the standard cant: If the general in the field asks for it, give it to him. Remember Westmoreland?
Since Eikenberry served two tours in Afghanistan and is now back as a diplomat he has insights which should be useful. Anyway, his views on Karzai are worth taking into account.
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First a ? for Joe re: "...And the idea that illiterate and tribal Afghans can be trained into soldiers and police officers remains more a hope than a fact...". How literate were Washington's militias?...granted Karzai is no Washington, but someone, somewhere has to stand up and lead the Afghans....honestly.
And for some of the responders here with regard to "honor", Eikenberry & courage. I'm pretty sure most of you have not worked in/around/with the military (maybe some have)...but speaking one's mind is not generally considered a way to get ahead. Thank god Eikenberry spoke up, because the military HAS no solution to the political problem i.e. Karzai and his crooks. And it is more an argument between the Army & the CIA as K. Drum puts it: counterinsurgency vs. counterterrorism. The first requires the long view, the second the short term. Basically again we're stuck in what is really a civil war between the Durrani & the Ghilzai...and we've sided with (technically) with the Ghilzai because Karzai is one of them. Again it's rural vs urban (the South & the GOP versus the rest of us?...the South forgets: they already lost 150 yrs. ago!)
Americans (generally) are not good at the long term. But basically if Eikenberry's right (i.e. Karzai is a deeply questionable & problematic "ally"), then CI may be a complete waste of time, money, & personnel. At least in Iraq there is/was a nascent political framework in place (that hopefully once we leave in force, they won't go back to killing each other).
So...for all of those that are so sure your yourselves: how many more American lives and taxpayer dollars (remember took over 5k lives & a trillion dollars) are you really willing to spend. And if you spend it, you damn well better win...and Obama has figured out that much at least.
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that's "...(remember Iraq took over 5k lives....)
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"I'm in favor of two more combat brigades for Kandahar city, another brigade for Khost and two training brigade--about 25,000 troops. I'm not confident about that, since I don't have access to the latest intelligence, but it's my best guess after countless conversations with counterinsurgency experts."
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Let's be wary about pathological "centrism", micromanagement or left-wing authoritarian following (I'm guessing ;^), when it comes to deciding war policy, shall we? Here's pretty good check list from somebody who knows a little bit about the decision to go to (or continue) war from 30,000 feet:
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1. Is a vital national security interest threatened? [perhaps]
2. Do we have a clear attainable objective? [no]
3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed? [no]
4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted? [no]
5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement? [no]
6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered? [no]
7. Is the action supported by the American people? [no]
8. Do we have genuine broad international support? [no]
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