Is Nadal Malik Hasan's Religion Relevant?

So because Timothy McVeigh was a radical Christian who prayed before he st off the bomb in Oklahoma City, we should put every Christian under a security watch?

Because he was arrested wearing a T-shirt that said "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and Tyrants," we should put every Teabagger under security watch?

Or do you just worry about the religions of those Middle Eastern brown people?

The issue, of course, sz, is dealing with the threat emanating from the Muslim community, both within and without the US, and remembering that America is a place of freedom.
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The really really hard question--if this guy was posting stuff on the internet praising suicide bombers etc., what is the response of a free people to an Army officer doing this? That is a hard hard question. And quite frankly, I don't know the answer.

"The issue, of course, sz, is dealing with the threat emanating from the Muslim community, both within and without the US,"
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Would someone define "Muslim community" for me please.
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There are over a billion Muslims.

There is no "the threat emanating from the Muslim community", there is a threat emanating from organized groups of radicalized, politicized fundamentalists who have accepted the use of terror.
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There is a threat emanating from terrorists.
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These terrorists --that's what they are, no more, no less-- bear no relationship whatsoever to "the Muslim community" or to random individual psychotics and murderers, and to make that slanderous charge against an entire people of faith is un-American.

…thanks, stuart for praising Amy (you can guess I often do) and for driving this discussion further and getting folks to comment (I try but usually fail).

Lighten up, Francis. If you want to get into debates about f'in nomenclature, fine. The bottom line is that we have enemies and a lot of them are Muslim. That doesn't mean that ALL of our enemies are Muslim or even that all Muslims are our enemies. But dancing around nomenclature cannot obscure reality.

deconstructiva:
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Credit where credit is due for the attempt, plus she actually provided examples of her generalizations in the form of links, (one of which is to the sick, amoral Maglalang, of course)

Don't repeat foul political slander like "threats emanating from the Muslim community" after a national tragedy, and you won't be condemned for being un-American.

SZ, chill with the PC nonsense. I am not about to be intimidated from playing Philip of Macedon and calling a spade a spade.

You're not calling anything an anything, you're telling a lie that is a lie.
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It's not political correctness that condemns you, it's the biblical commandment:

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
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~Exodus 20:16

"there is a threat emanating from organized groups of radicalized, politicized fundamentalists who have accepted the use of terror."

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Now spob, you are really going to pi$$ off our liberal trolls if you keep that up!!
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I sat in my car this afternoon near Orlando, Florida, listening to the play by play radio action as a person fired TWO YEARS AGO by a company entered the building he'd formerly worked in and shot 6 people, killing one. His name was Jason Rodriguez and he apparently snapped, after a span of two years, because he felt his former company had "left him to rot." The point being, that while people may use a huge number of irrational excuses for their motivation in committing or attempting to commit mass murder, I would truly hate to be profiled by anyone because my company fired me in February or because my last name was Hispanic in Florida.

I don't disagree with terrorist watch lists, with reasonable measures taken to protect me (I do live fifteen minutes from Kennedy Space Center, one of the most high profile targets in the United States, and I quite clearly recall a strip of Highway A1A being rerouted to protect Patrick AFB for literally years following 9/11, so I do understand the phrase "reasonable precautionary measures") but it's folly to assume that nutjobs of any stripe will be completely controlled by profiling.

No one has ever said it better than Benjamin Franklin. "They who can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I prefer to live in a society that believes those who live in it deserve both freedom of religion and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without persecution for those religious beliefs until proven guilty of at least plotting some crime against that society. Those being some of the most basic of conservative principles.

What about your right wing freinds who have out-killed Al Queda on American soil?
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Is that a "conservative ideal" too?
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Or are you going to try to engage in doubletalk to try to avoid the fact that of all the terrorists (and the Ft Hood shooter may not be!), your peers are leading the body count so far!

Sad but true.

"Where in the Qur'an is our culture specifically targeted as evil? Chapter and verse, please. No false God stuff? Christians and Muslims (and Jews) share the same God."

Just a gentle reminder that roughly half the world is not Christian, Muslim or Jewish. Is "our culture" exclusively Judeo-Christian-Islamic?

" .. Is religion relevant? You betcha .."

In what sense?

cfukara, in Albert Speer's autobiography (Inside the Third Reich), he mentioned Hitler's admiration of Islam …mainly for its ancient military history, such as the Battle of Tours. “Spreading faith by the sword” was the phrase used.

“Spreading faith by the sword”

Indeed.
That was what the christians' "crusades" were all about .... for centuries.
In Africa, North/South Americas and currently in Iraq/Afghanistan one sees christianity spreading - by the sword ..
It has been suggested that where the sword failed - the spread of christianity was stymied. ...

Who would rather die impaled on a christian's sword than that of a shintoist?

[Hands up: Who among you phony, innocent christianians would rather be maimed or killed violently by an American drone than by an Al Queda IED?]

If you're going to start cherry-picking killings in the United States, you have a very busy day ahead of you, spob.

Can you ever stick to the topic of the piece? Ever?

One of the subthemes of Amy's piece is about the folly of jumping to general conclusions. I'm simply pointing out that "conservatives" (read Michelle Malkin) are simply following the Messiah's lead.

That's like the time John McCain jumped to the conclusion on the Georgia-Russia conflict last August.

It's morally disgusting and, to the extent it confuses the uninformed, takes our eye off the real threat, and what we actually need to do to keep our country safe.

Well, PD, nice little ad hominem. How 'bout this? When John Kerry stated that allies who provided troops to the war effort in Iraq were "window dressing", was that patriotic? And when are you going to distance yourself from a party that counts him in good standing?
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Or now that you people have gone off the deep end about "jumping to conclusions", when are you going to draw the obvious conclusion from Obama jumping to conclusions about white police officer Crowley?

Allow me to repost from two threads below:
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I'm all for making Abu Ghraib a never ending series, much like Friday thr 13th. I have no pity for the murderous muslim bastards. I'm a conservative, your a liberal. These murderers would happily kill us both. What part of that don't you understand?
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The writer has said on other occasions that his son is deployed in Afghanistan. It would seem that the same people who are expected to fight alongside the Afghan army against the Taliban might have some difficulty, if they like this person, believe that simply being Muslim qualifies you as the enemy.
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It's a distressingly common sentiment and it's adherents are almost Universally self-identified Republicans.

When John Kerry stated that allies who provided troops to the war effort in Iraq were "window dressing", was that patriotic?
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Are you mentally retarded, Spob? Were Kerry's remarks unpatriotic? To who? Poland? The Netherlands? What a stupid, stupid question.
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Anyone with an IQ of over 75 should grasp that if Kerry was saying that other countries were not carrying their fair share, it means that the U.S. was carrying too much of the burden. It was costing the U.S. more than our fair share. We were suffering more than our fair share of dead and wounded. Our troops were being rotated back into combat more often, for longer, and with less time off than if other countries were contributing more.
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I read a lot of dumb, dumb comments by wingnuts. Most of them are based upon faulty, made-up facts. But this might be the stupidest of all for taking a true quote that clearly, plainly, and simply was made in an effort to stick up for U.S. interests and twists it into being "unpatriotic." Even if you disagree with what Kerry was saying, I can't even grasp the twisted logic that would go into questioning Kerry's patriotism based on the statement.

That's right square1, it's oh-so-patriotic to denigrate the contribution of allies in a shooting war.

Since it has been determined as fact that the gunman is alive, why don't we wait for Hasan to be interviewed by the police. Instead of all this speculation we might actually learn why Hasan did it, from Hasan himself. Imagine that!

…exiled, what type of conservative are you? (seriously, not an insult) A sane one, no doubt, and not likely a Malkin / Bachmann type, but there's been recent talk about different strains of conservatism – I added some two cents but stuart added more, among others. Malkin did write the piece that provoked Amy and no one would call MM a flaming liberal.

Fair enough. I was merely pointing out that there are many more reasonable assumptions out there by conservatives. We're not all screaming "terrorist" and "Muslim." Not by a long shot.

Well exiled, while I sympathize with you (I frequently get shot at here as if I were a militant dem) a very large chunk of conservatives DO believe what Amy said. Are they a majority of conservatives? I hope not. But here's a small sample of recent bile.

. A whacko Muslim just went nuts and killed a bunch of soldiers, and I see that your beloved MSM is bending over backwards trying to portray him as the victim.Interesting paul.
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I have no pity for the murderous muslim bastards. I'm a conservative, your a liberal. These murderers would happily kill us both. What part of that don't you understand?
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At the risk of sounding barbaric and unwashed to you and you're elite liberal cronies, I say KILL 'EM ALL! If not, bring our boy's home. You're a sick joke Joe, and I look forward to the day when you're ramblings are no more. It's a comin'!
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While I realize that you distance yourself from the wackos, there are enough to give conservatism in general a bad name.

Thank God for conservatives like you, neorationalist86.
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If I'm going to oppose people because of their political philosophy, at least I'd like to assume they are capable of morality.
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Good for you that you'd speak up for those conservatives who don't literally endorse internment camps for Americans, unlike Malkin:

In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror (Hardcover)
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Michelle Malkin

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From the Publisher
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Everything you've been taught about the World War II "internment camps" in America is wrong: - They were not created primarily because of racism or wartime hysteria
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- They did not target only those of Japanese descent
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- They were not Nazi-style death camps
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In her latest investigative tour-de-force, New York Times best-selling author Michelle Malkin sets the historical record straight-and debunks radical ethnic alarmists who distort history to undermine common-sense, national security profiling. The need for this myth-shattering book is vital. President Bush's opponents have attacked every homeland defense policy as tantamount to the "racist" and "unjustified" World War II internment. Bush's own transportation secretary, Norm Mineta, continues to milk his childhood experience at a relocation camp as an excuse to ban profiling at airports. Misguided guilt about the past continues to hamper our ability to prevent future terrorist attacks. In Defense of Internment shows that the detention of enemy aliens, and the mass evacuation and relocation of ethnic Japanese from the West Coast were not the result of irrational hatred or conspiratorial bigotry. This document-packed book highlights the vast amount of intelligence, including top-secret "MAGIC" messages, which revealed the Japanese espionage threat on the West Coast. Malkin also tells the truth about:
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- who resided in enemy alien internment camps (nearly half were of European ancestry)
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- what the West Coast relocation centers were really like (tens of thousands of ethnic Japanese were allowed to leave; hundreds voluntarily chose to move in)
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- why the $1.65 billion federal reparations law for Japanese internees and evacuees was a bipartisan disaster
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- and how both Japanese American and Arab/Muslim American leaders have united to undermine America's safety.
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With trademark fearlessness, Malkin adds desperately needed perspective to the ongoing debate about the balance between civil liberties and national security. In Defense of Internment will outrage, enlighten, and radically change the way you view the past-and the present.

The only question for conservatives is:
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"Do you denounce and reject Michelle Malkin?"
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, and today you've proven yourself worth of the honor of being American, neorationalist86.

Ohiolib~
I beg your pardon, but I hardly see three blog comments made under the guise of online anonymity as emblematic of conservatism. I could easily find three public comments rejecting the views that you quoted. Are there wing-nuts within the conservative movement? You bet. Just as there are within progressivism: Code Pink, Sierra Club, Earth Liberation Front, etc. The existence of wing-nuts is ubiquitous. However, it speaks not to the ideology to which these individual pervert.

When Neo is right Neo is right. Agree with all of it.

While you are completely right, exiled, that wasn't my point. My point was how Amy tarred most conservatives with the lunatic brush. I was saying that is was an easy, if false, generalization. I'm not defending it, only providing examples of why it may have been made. And I sincerely hope that Malkin isn't in line with "most conservatives" yet. If so the R party has degenerated further than I though.

Stuart, PNNTO-
Thank you.
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Ohiolib-
Ok, I see your point. No worries.

Exiled who was formerly Neo, is about as "conservative" as a box of rocks. Libertarian perhaps, but his social and economic values are even more liberal than stuarts.
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But, thank you none-the-less neo for taking up for us conservatives. I'll have Sarah send you a signed copy of her new book

Dr. Rusty-
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No, sir. You are Republican, with nary an iota of conservatism in your philosophy. I adhere to strong conservative social principles, as well as free market enterprise, although not unbridled. However, I also endorse the Social Justice Theory which is not in any manner contrary to conservative principles. Conservatism does endorse the notions of compassion and morality, yes? Does not helping those in need constitute a moral imperative?
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William Buckley, the father of modern conservatism, was opposed to the war in Iraq. My hesitancy to endorse endless, seemingly ineffective, conflict makes me unconservative? I'm really quite confused.
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Does conservatism require feckless fidelity to a major human rights abuser, namely Israel?
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I think you adhere to perverted notions of conservatism not intentionally, per se, but because of factional loyalties to a party that proclaims conservative values while treading on them in an egregious manner. You are confusing the platform rhetoric with substance, of which the Republican Party often contradicts itself.
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I loathe the platform of the Democratic Party and I despise the posturing of the GOP. Does this make me unconservative?
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Chuck Hagel, Paul Findley, Richard Lugar, these are the men of the GOP whom you should admire, instead of corporate lackeys falsely preaching populist propaganda.
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Perhaps I have missed an important point. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to my conservative failings.
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Cheers!

neorationalist86:
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Quick question:
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When you say "The Social Justice Theory" (there are more than one), do you mean this link or some other?

The very same...

I will say this, Exiled:
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However you slice it, right wing terrorists, when added to Rusty et al's a la carte buffet of hatred and hatemongers, gives conservatives a bad name.
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When I bring it up, it is to blunt any of their exclusive claim to patriotism or even, being on the right side of the terrorism issue.
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I do not for one second doubt that the likes of Rusty and others secretly cheered Timothy McVeigh, as have many who have participated in their blogs, shows, websites, talk shows and tv shows.
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I think that what point is missed here is that organizations like ELF have no mainstream life, nor do they have any mainstream support from any "leftie", indluding Olbermann.
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This is completely at odds with the long, long, long history the right wing shares with acts of terrorism.
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If you don't like the association, then perhaps it would be wise to start cleaning your house.
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After all, Exiled, you cannot make any case whatsoever for advocacy for terrorism or violence in the Democratic party.
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This is from a guy who has watched both for 35 years...

...so much for asking polite questions.

Deconstructiva~
I'm sorry, your benign question was lost amidst the exchange. What type of conservative am I? Interesting question, as there appears to be four main streams of conservatism: social, fiscal, foreign policy, and, less noted, political.
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Socially speaking, I am an extreme absolutist. I am opposed to same-sex unions (although my Catholic Christian faith encourages tolerance and compassion of those whose actions I find immoral, I cannot, and ought not, to condone such); I am opposed to the overwhelming majority of so-called justifications for abortions; I find very little constitutional support for the recent judicial and legislative onslaughts on religion and the free exercise thereof, and this includes individuals within the government who have a constitutional right to express their beliefs and naturally base their governing on their religious convictions; I hold an extremely negative view of American culture (lackthereof?) and its decaying morality.
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In terms of fiscal policy, I favor free-market capitalism and restrained government expenditure. However, I completely recognize the absolute need for regulation of industry to prevent monopolies, unfair business practices, and exploitation. I also reject the idea that corporations should have a voice in political debates, especially the ridiculous degree to which corporate dollars fund campaigns and issue groups that lobby Congress. While I favor restricted spending, I endorse social programs that are truly aimed at assisting those in need and not structured to perpetuate dependency. This applies to the government. As a society of civilians, however, we are obligated towards charity and community.
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Foreign policy, perhaps my most centrist position. Although I was a bit of a hawk in my earlier days, I am increasingly leery of American armed involvement in international conflicts. I strike a balance between protection of national interests (including homeland security efforts) with a respect for the sovereignty of all states. I strongly believe the United States has squandered its benevolent image of post-WWII through its incessant failings in protecting the human rights of the oppressed across the globe: Rwanda, Sudan, Palestine, etc. Simultaneously, the US has consistently enabled many injustices: Israeli occupation, Bosnian war crimes, Saudi monarchy, etc US foreign policy is in shambles.
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Finally, political conservatism, that is my philosophy on governance: constitutional originalism, small government, decentralizations, ect
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While I tend towards libertarianism in the sense that I support the privacy of the populace over the claims of compelling state interests, such as my opposition to the Patriot Act or my support for the legalization of marijuana, I do think that morality supersedes unbridled liberty. There are instances where my desire to see less government must be capitulated to my moral absolutism in preventing the erosion of human dignity.

A much better explanation of your "conservativism" neorationalist. Each time you post a comment like this I do get a better picture, and from my last comment was hoping that a more indepth self analysis would take place.
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A John Stossel Libertarian would be a more apt description. But, since I also believe that people should be able to self-identify themselves, you can continue to call yourself a conservative. (just kidding).
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I would much rather live next to you with your views, than I would with someone like IQ53. In IQ53's case, he would simply come to my home, take whatever he needed without asking. Just like his beliefs in his Government's right to do so without recourse.
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...thanks, exiled. This definitely adds clarity to the different lines of conservative thought here and especially in our political stars (Palin compared to Gingrich, Huckabee to Romney, etc.). It's not just personal attention. These leaders have slightly different values and the differences are now showing up (such as in NY-23).

Rustydog:

So you agree with me.
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That's excellent; you must have a conscience.

"America is all about judging our fellow citizens on the basis of each individual's merits."

Which is precisley why I think it's important to differentiate between anti-Muslim bigots and Conservatives in general.

Your record speaks for itself.

Has anyone pointed out to you Rusty that you guys collectively called yourself "teabaggers"?
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Just thought I'd point that out...

" .. Rustydog: ... That's excellent; you must have a conscience. .."

Who?
Rusty?

It must be a very sad life you lead, cfukara. To not know the beauty and wonder that is in rural America. The great plains of the mid-west. Or, the Rocky Mountains of Idaho and Colorado.
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Does it ever get boring in the inner city slums?

Rusty:
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Have you ever given consideration that "rural America" is paid for by the likes of us urban animals?
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I really think we should end income redistribution.
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Do you know what would happen?
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You would starve in punery...

I live in a rural area. Farmland, horses, cows, fields, woods...the whole shebang. Do you have any idea how many of my "F**K BUSH" signs were vandalized by my neighbors? It's hard to go a half mile out here without seeing a "Jesus Christ" sign nailed to a tree or a telephone pole. Do you know how hard it is to paint "Slow Down" or "I'm Drunk" underneath them without getting caught?

Yes, and to quote a more famous liberal and mentor of Barack HUSSEIN Obama.
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"God Damn America!!!!", Rev Jeremiah Wright</blockquote
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How does that make you feel, jcapan?

Speaking of the Virginia Tech shootings, Nadal Malik Hasan graduated from Virginia Tech in 1997.

Should we now put all alumni of Virginia Tech under security watch?