The Election
I didn't spend much time reporting, and none writing, about this year's elections. As is often the case these days, they are being overplayed because they offer easily quantifiable results that can be wildly extrapolated. Republicans are crowing a bit too much, but Democrats have been known to do the same in similar circumstances. Here are a few additional thoughts.
1. The New Jersey and Virginia races have mostly local import, and were determined by lousy Democratic candidates running against Republicans who emphasized governance issues. But they do have a message for the national Democratic party: people are still scared about the economy and they are worried by (a) the lack of focus of the Obama Administration and (b)their continuing uncertainty about what the President is actually proposing for health care. (And, as always, they want more services--job creation now--and lower taxes and lower deficits.)
2. The NY-23 race should send a message to Republican wingnuts, but it probably won't. It is a cause for optimism for Democrats--but I'm not sure Democrats should be all that optimistic: this is a commentary on the inept extremism of the Republicans rather than any public love for what the Dems are offering.
3. According to this Washington Post story, moderate Democrats are wary of grand ideas...but they want to see more job creation. Does that mean they'll favor another stimulus package? Greater budget deficits? What?
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1
Finally, a rational analysis.
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2
Yes You Can!!! write something that actually makes sense.
."But they do have a message for the national Democratic party: people are still scared about the economy and they are worried by (a) the lack of focus of the Obama Administration and (b)their continuing uncertainty about what the President is actually proposing for health care."
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It's the economy STUPID!! Has been and always will be the number one issue for most all Americans. Especially when the unemployment rate holds steady now at 10 PERCEANT and there is no plan or proposal from Obama on how to reverse it.-
2.1
That should be 10 PERCENT
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3
Joe Klein:
moderate Democrats are wary of grand ideas
"Moderate" what?
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Isn't the centrist Democratic proposal --such as Baucus' "uniquely American" scheme of layer upon layer of state and private bureaucracy-- the huge, scary experiment here, not adaptation of the tried and true methods the rest of the cost-effective OECD world uses, which liberals propose?
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Isn't the crazed fetishizing of opposition party destruction --I mean, participation in setting the goals of the legislation the "grand idea" to be greeted with appropriate skepticism?
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Aren't the centrist members of the Senate New Democrat Coalition the ones who are truly guilty of foolish and wildly expensive "grand ideas" here, Joe Klein? -
4
Every day, in every way, "Moderate" Democrats are terrified of something...mostly of representing the actual needs and wishes of their constituents. What a vain and vile lot.
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4.1
Well, slowp, IMO the moderate dems are generally representiing conservative or moderate districts and don't want to be seen allying themsleves with Pelosi or Reid. That, and many of their constituents still run around in circles screaming "socialism socialism" whenever Obama comes up. I don't see them as cowardly. They're reflecting the make-up of their districts. Doesn't mean they're right, though.
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4.2
Here is a list of centrist Dems in the Senate New Democrat Coalition, taken from the Wikipedia entry ( link ):
Senate New Democrat Coalition members
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The following Senators belong or belonged to the Senate New Democrat Coalition.[4][5][6]Current senators
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* Blanche Lincoln (AR, founder)
* Dianne Feinstein (CA, by 2001)
* Thomas R. Carper (DE, by 2001; co-chair from 2003)
* Joe Lieberman (CT, founder)
* Bill Nelson (FL, by 2001)
* Evan Bayh (IN, founder)
* Mary Landrieu (LA, founder, co-chair from 2003)
* John Kerry (MA, from 2000[7])
* Debbie Stabenow (MI, by 2001)
* Kent Conrad (ND, from 2000)
* Ben Nelson (NE, by 2001)
* Tim Johnson (SD, from 2000)
* Maria Cantwell (WA, by 2001)
* Herb Kohl (WI, from 2000)The New Democrat Coalition is a Congressional Member Organization within the United States Congress made up of Democrats who support an agenda that the organization describes as moderate and pro-growth.
Geography or ideology?
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4.3
Ohio -
Yes & no. I respect that some of these guys are from conservative districts and I respect that. However (and especially w/ respect to healthcare), they're clearly bucking the wishes & needs of their constituents.
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And in the bigger picture, always and everywhere these jokers have a million reasons why they can't do something that seems the tiniest bit progressive and must do everything that appeals to the narrow interests of their corporate benefactors.
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It's the same wrong-headed and self-centered DLC baloney that nearly destroyed the party in the 90's, and the real battleground coming up is the reregulation of Wall Street, which is 1) necessary, 2) one of the things the Dems were elected to do, and 3) a political winner w/ 90% of the public. And yet, I can almost hear losers like Terry McAulliffe and Evan Bayh thinking, "This is great, if we protect Wall Street we can pry these big donors away from the Repubs for a generation!"
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Once in awhile they should at least try to give the impression that they're as concerned about doing their job as they are in keeping it. -
4.4
And in the bigger picture, always and everywhere these jokers have a million reasons why they can't do something that seems the tiniest bit progressive and must do everything that appeals to the narrow interests of their corporate benefactors
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And here we do agree. Almost all politicians have become slaves to corporate interests, IMO. -
4.5
Stuart: Yet Cantwell ultimately came out in favor of a public option, and cosponsored the Schumer-Cantwell amendment. (After playing coy about the PO for months.)
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It's unclear whether Cantwell moved in that direction on her own, or because she got enough angry emails from people like Demwoman (PW) and myself.... -
4.6
Art Pepper:
It's unclear whether Cantwell moved in that direction on her own
Not all centrists are radical centrists, just like not all liberals are extreme leftists.
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I'm not saying that all centrists are extreme, just that centrists tend to vote in a way that liberals think are wrong for the country, because we are in fundamental disagreement about a number of important principles and theories of government/economy.
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The more moderate the centrist, the more agreement we may potentially come to. The more radical the centrist, the more we will inevitably clash. -
4.7
Sorry, that should be "that liberals think of as wrong for the country"
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5
...people...are worried by (a) the lack of focus of the Obama Administration and (b)their continuing uncertainty about what the President is actually proposing for health care.
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What aspect of the NJ and VA gubernatorial races leads you to this conclusion, Joe? Looking at the exit polling pretty much says the opposite:
The gubernatorial elections in Virginia and New Jersey looked less like a referendum on Barack Obama than a reflection of their own candidates and issues. Still, the two Republican victories, in predominantly Democratic New Jersey and in purple Virginia, had to smart.
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Just under half the voters in Virginia, 48 percent, approved of the way Obama is handling his job, rising to 57 percent in New Jersey. Most in both states, in any case, said the president was not a factor in their vote.I've seen far too much import given by some pundits to the NJ and VA state election results as a referendum (or stinging rebuke!) on Obama's national policies without any other reason given besides a) people are nervous about X and b) Corzine, Deeds, and Obama are all Democrats.
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5.1
Joe apparently also didn't spend much time reading exit polls where three-quarters or more of voters said their vote was either unrelated to Obama or a vote in support of him (18%).
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6
"(And, as always, they want more services--job creation now--and lower taxes and lower deficits.)"
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and
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"Does that mean they'll favor another stimulus package? Greater budget deficits? What?"
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Perhaps you could use your next column to explain to the ignorant masses - and, apparently, some of our elected representatives - something my Daddy taught me at an early age: ain't no free (in this case, effective government costs money). Someone should.-
6.1
and ineffective government costs more.
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6.2
Obvious but true. Also obvious: let the people who believe in, train and practice using government to solve social problems (you know the only ones who ever shrink the government, balance the government budget and solve social problems with it - Democrats) and let the people who say "government is the problem" do something else.
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6.3
"you know the only ones who ever shrink the government, balance the government budget and solve social problems with it - Democrats"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHH. Shrink the government! You either are deliberately mistating something or just an idiot.
Those same Democrats who count a salary increase as a job saved?
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7
"According to this Washington Post story, moderate Democrats are wary of grand ideas...but they want to see more job creation."
LOL
This is rather funny given that Obama surrounded himself with nothing but "moderate" economic advisers, who were responsible for cutting back the stimulus package, especially in the area of projects with high multiplier effects.
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7.1
The truly funny part is how far left liberals are if you think Obama's advisers economic or others are moderate
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7.2
They're not "moderate", they're radical centrists.
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They are extremists, but their ideology is centrism.
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Obama seemed to be a relatively (relative to Joe Lieberman or Ben Nelson) moderate centrist, but that was before he got into the White House, and chose Larry Summers --one of the Clinton Administration's chief architects of the financial collapse-- to be his top economic adviser. -
7.3
A real liberal would have nationalized the banks that were bailed out, or changed the capitalization rules, rather than parking billions of dollars on their balance sheets so they could meet them. (It's interesting that the welfare banks handed out in bonuses approximately the amount the tax payers gave the welfare bums.) A real liberal would have also invested in high multiplier projects, including defense and infrastructure, and probably made some strategic tax cuts. We are run by idiots whose only claim to fame is they are "centrists", an empty ideology that can't even put up a level 1 epistemology, let alone a coherent economic policy.
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Obama is going to continue to hemorrhage midterm base support if the Administration keeps doing sh!t like this: http://tinyurl.com/yhkkg73
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Boy, Rahm really loves to piss off the liberal base, doesn't he?
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It's almost like they're going out of their way to generate bad will.
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I know centrists reflexively hate doing what liberal want, but how much anti-populist stuff do they really think they can get away with in a crap economy?-
8.1
I don't know, stuart, I think Rahm generally operates from the standard DLC principle of putting corporate influence first. The byproduct of that philosophy is that it pisses off the base.
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8.2
There's not that extra little bit of juice in it --because it's Rahm? ...?
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You're probably right. Valentines from industry and finance are worth more any day than "Remember me?" voice mail from us. -
8.3
I agree, stuart, that Rahm loves shoving his thumbs into the eyes of the base, but that is primarily because he's from the Terry McAuliffe "Look!-We-can-be-bought-too!" school of Democratic/DLC/Clintonian politics.
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Of course, Rahm just generally enjoys shoving his thumbs into any perceived enemy's eyes. -
8.4
But it says right there in Constitution:
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To promote Corporate Profits, by securing for unlimited Times to Large Corporations the exclusive Right to their respective Writings, Discoveries, Business Practices, and Other Stray Thoughts,
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9
Oh, and welcome back Joe Klein, I think!!
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10
moderate Democrats are wary of grand ideas...but they want to see more job creation. Does that mean they'll favor another stimulus package? Greater budget deficits? What?
I'm guessing repeal of the estate tax is the economic "cure" they will suggest.
My Lieberdem Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick had a phone in town hall the other night and she whined a whole lot about the deficit and then she offered about $10 billion in places where she could find savings. I want to be represented by a wingnut at this point, it is way easier on the old ticker. -
11
Joe makes a cameo in the BHO documentary running on HBO.
Joe is walking into the hall before Obama's speech on race.
Joe says "I hope he talks about patriotism"For some reason that made me laugh.
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12
JK:
"I didn't spend much time reporting, and none writing, about this year's elections."
And the trend continued in the above post. Seems being away did not make you any smarter. Your three brilliant insights were not only predictable but expressed repeatedly by every other liberal journalist. A display not only of your bias but you innate ability to analyze anything.
What did you discern from the elections about the left wing-nuts (Introspection is good Joe)? See the article
(Liberals think other Americans
are extremists)
below which examines a point of view that is becoming apparent to everyone but liberals.-
12.1
freeinpa,
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I especially liked this part of the column you linked:
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The battle for the soul of the Republican Party in New York's 23rd congressional district went to the conservatives. Unfortunately, the race went to the Democrats.
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President Obama avoided the district like the plague, which may have helped. People may have resented all the outside influence on their race.
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Sarah Palin was able to push liberal Republican Dede Scozzafava aside in this race, but Palin's candidate still lost.
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Going into Tuesday, Republicans needed to pick up 40 seats next year to make John Boehner the Speaker of the House.
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They now need 41.Well said. Do you agree with the columnist, freeinpa?
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12.2
palininatowel
I am very well aware of who wrote what. It does go to the point that liberals are like rabid dogs in defending Obama (with or without the truth), demeaning Palin and yet ignore other obvious points like liberals think other Americans are extremists.
Your responses did not disappoint. Now wipe the froth off your keyboard.
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12.3
Heh-heh, free, I love the fact that you cite a columnist to bad mouth Obama and Dems only you don't even bother to read the guy's entire column.
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The guy who was "demeaning Palin" was the very columnist you cited, above.
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Thanks for the laughs! -
12.4
palininatowe
I read it all. And as I pointed out YOU agreed with them blindly even the statements he made that were incorrect. In fact they were the statements you flew to like flies on horse crap.
Diagnosis: Palin deranged syndrome accompanied by Obama leg tingles.
Prognoses: Riding the short bus is in your future
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12.5
How we know you;re lying, free.
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Below, you wrote to me:
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So are you delusional or lying about Obama & the plague?
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You were referencing the line from the columnist you cited with a link:
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President Obama avoided the district like the plague, which may have helped.
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That line was written by the columnist, not me, free.
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Pathetic. You get caught with your pants down and want to claim that thing hanging out is a banana.
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13
palininato
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"President Obama avoided the district like the plague, which may have helped. People may have resented all the outside influence on their race.Here is how Obama is not connected to these elections:
New York 23
* Barack Obama sent Joe Biden to visit.
* Obama's White House negotiated Dede Scozzafava's endorsement of the Democrat.
* Scozzafava and Owens both supported and campaigned on supporting the stimulus.So are you delusional or lying about Obama & the plague?
I am more amazed that Palin could force a candidate out and turn her into a Democrat. Come to think of it, Dede is the perfect Democrat, no principles and run at the first sign of conflict.
I am not sure how many seats they will win, but it is clear even if libs won't admit it, the pressure on them is building and their stupidity is increasing.
Please, Please, please keep believing these results had nothing to do with Obama and his nut-job leftist policies.
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13.1
Hilarious. See my post, below.
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14
Um, free, the part in italics is a direct quote from the article you cited with your link. Did you even bother to read the entire piece you linked? Too effin' funny!
This was written by the columnist you cite:
The battle for the soul of the Republican Party in New York's 23rd congressional district went to the conservatives. Unfortunately, the race went to the Democrats.
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President Obama avoided the district like the plague, which may have helped. People may have resented all the outside influence on their race.
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Sarah Palin was able to push liberal Republican Dede Scozzafava aside in this race, but Palin's candidate still lost.
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Going into Tuesday, Republicans needed to pick up 40 seats next year to make John Boehner the Speaker of the House.
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They now need 41.I din't write that! You columnist did!
Good lord...
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15
I agree with much Klein is saying except for one thing; the lesson of this election is that if Democrats run as Republicans, they lose. Creigh Deeds was anti choice, anti gay rights, anti health care reform, anti stimulus...and the list goes on. Democrats saw no reason to vote in the election. Frankly, many of my friends in Virginia didn't vote for the first time in their adult lives because they felt Deeds was one of those ubiquitous Democrats out there who thinks that if they agree with the conservatives that Republicans and Independents will vote for them. That may be, but they forget one thing; Democrats won't. The lesson for Obama and congress is not that they've gone too far to the left but that when they pussyfoot around, their base leaves the room.
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15.1
...one of those ubiquitous Democrats out there who thinks that if they agree with the conservatives that Republicans and Independents will vote for them...
There's a name for what political philosophy those Democrats espouse and believe in...it's not liberalism...it's...not progressive, that's just a new name for liberal...it's...it's on the tip of my tongue...
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15.2
Actually Democrats ran as Republicans in 2008 which is how they won Congress and the PResidency. When they tried it again they lost.
Fool me once Shame on You ; Fool me twice ......
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15.3
Actually Democrats ran as Republicans in 2008 which is how they won Congress and the PResidency.
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Um, correct me if I'm wrong, free, but wasn't George W. Bush a Republican? And didn't Democrats run against Bush and the Republican Congress and the massive failures they produced?
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You are generating a lot of laughs today with your musings. So thanks for that!
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Well dang Mizerello, I was just coming here to post the same thing. I couldn't agree more. On Tues. we replaced a blue dog with a more moderate critter and in NY changed the seat for the first time since the Civil War. Both of whom campaigned partly on the healthcare issue.
But one thing I can add is that I hope the conservatives continue to purge the moderates out of the Republican party. If nothing else it was fun to watch.
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Actually Democrats ran as Republicans in 2008 which is how they won Congress and the PResidency.
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So they came out in favor of irresponsible tax cuts, off budget 'emergency' war spending and the gutting of the regulatory agencies responsible for food and drug safety?-
17.1
Compliments from the land of the lucid, PD.
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17.2
Uh I do recall Obama talking about tax cuts (which he lied about). Not unlike Bill Clinton did as well.
And balanced budgets right up until the porkukus bill passed.
And family values and gun owner rights.
What I don't recall is him campaigning on bankrupting the country, naming radical nut-jobs as czars, government takeover of the auto industry or taking over the health care industry.
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18
"Actually Democrats ran as Republicans in 2008 which is how they won Congress and the PResidency."
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This really couldn't be a much finer example of the absolute confidence in completely deluded notions which characterizes the right wing. Now I'm sure some Dick-Morris-like professional liar and propagandist came up with this absurd meme which the authoritarian followers swallow whole and regurgitate as if it were the actual truth, instead of the complete opposite of it. And no matter how many campaign speeches and video of Democrats campaigning on exactly the same thing that the wingnuts are currently losing their collective minds (so to speak) over (healthcare reform, banking re-regulation, global warming legislation, etc., etc.), it would never change their nonsensical belief. That is exactly why this tiny slice of the electorate is considered by lucid people to be functionally insane.-
18.1
Yes everyone lies conservatives, Fox News on and on and on. Same crap with no basis. Obama has lied since he started campaigning and yet the supposed superior intelligent elite like your dumbass self keep believing. Every poll is showing signs that the pendulum has swung after a mere 9 months fro these idiotic policies. The same small slice and extinct party seems to be keeping a WH, and Democrat dominated Congress from passing the nightmares that you dimwitted liberals wish.
So are they gutless or just stupid? And if the functionally insane people can do this, how pathetic are the likes of you and the rest of the liberals
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18.2
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18.3
You absolutely are. First intelligent you have uttered
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