Perfect Pitch
Vice President Joe Biden had an absolutely perfect response to Dick Cheney's utterly predictable and entirely wrong foreign policy speech this week:
Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. had a blunt response on Friday to the latest broadsides from former Vice President Dick Cheney: “Who cares?”
Exactly so. The national security policy pursued during George W. Bush's first term--when Cheney was, arguably, President for Foreign Policy--was the worst, most embarrassing, most counter-productive, in American history. The Administration's refusal to allow Hamid Karzai negotiate a deal with Mullah Omar--when the Taliban leader was at his weakest and suing for mercy in December 2001--arguably is the reason why we have the Afghan mess on our hands today.
But Cheney's spectacular and lethal cluelessness exemplifies another phenomenon, one that plagues journalists including, on occasion, me...
That phenomenon is impatience, bolstered by a lack of knowledge. Diplomacy simply moves too slowly, on too many tracks, for the speed of latter-day journalism, especially cable news. Take this excellent example, reported by the ever-admirable Ahmed Rashid.
Rahm Emanuel's television appearance last Sunday, in which he said that no decision could be made on more troops until the Afghan government resolved its electoral mess, was part of a coordinated effort to get Karzai to agree to a runoff election. And it worked, but not before a baloney-storm erupted among the wingers, criticizing the President and Emanuel for dithering about sending more troops. As soon as Karzai agreed to the runoff, a second message was sent by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates--plans were proceeding for the next stage of the war. The Emanuel-Gates statements were routinely described as "dueling" and, for a day or so, that's exactly how it seemed: a slight breech between the Pentagon and the White House.
But it wasn't. And Obama's effort to formulate a new strategy for Afghanistan is, by all accounts, a coherent effort to incorporate four information streams--the military situation on the ground (the McChrystal stream); the military situation across the Pakistan border, where a major offensive is taking place that will have an impact on the situation in Afghanistan; the Afghan political stream; and the latest intelligence about the size, strength and intentions of Al Qaeda.
Once again, it is important to note that absolutely no such strategy review took place about Afghanistan during the Bush Administration. In fact, no basic policy review took place during the Bush Administration about Iraq, its war of choice, until 2006 when the decision was finally made to try counterinsurgency. Even more outrageous, no basic strategic review--aside from a riotously foolish bout of wishful thinking by Donald Rumsfeld--took place before the war in Iraq was launched. No American had a clue about what to do in Baghdad when we got there.
So, to hear Cheney attacking Obama now is the next thing to obscene. And to watch the neocon yackers blindly backing the 40,000 troop military option--without full knowledge of the four information streams the President has to coordinate--and attacking the President for "dithering" is laughably knee-jerk. But the rest of us have a responsibility as well to be patient, to allow the process to play out. My guess is that there are several additional developments necessary--will Karzai and Abdullah form a coalition and avoid the runoff? How will the Pakistanis fare in Waziristan?--before a final decision can be made.
Taking time to get it right was something Bush never did until it was too late. It's disgraceful that Cheney, who should have the good sense to just go away, is criticizing the President for being more prudent about the expenditure of American lives than he ever was.
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1
I'm glad you recognize the impatience and lack of analytical sense that surrounds these kinds of diplomatic matters, as well as anything Cheney says.
If only you could note the exact same thing that surrounds all the other kinds of issues, much like the whole Fox snit.
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1.1
"If only you could note the exact same thing that surrounds all the other kinds of issues, much like the whole Fox snit."
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The only thing Klein "stirs" up is the crap from the far left. He gets out his amazing Kitchen-made mixer, and flings crap all over the walls. Then, Klein runs.
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Instead of pointing out the flaws of the Obama Administration, Klein focuses on past Administrations, using the Obama talking points to "stir" more crap.
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Joe Klein is nothing more than a big JOKE.
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TIME magazine and their web site here is nothing more than a BIG JOKE.
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One only needs to go look at all of the comments on Klein's blog attacking Fox News to fully see that the vast majority of Americans want the Obama Administration to be held accountable, NOW.
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Not next year Joe Klein, NOW.
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Asking the tough questions of this administration just might get you back some little sense of credibility, TIME. You would benefit greatly by taking a page out of the Fox News strategy book!!!!! -
1.2
dithering == finding the time and legal expertise to figure out who is right an wrong on a particular issue...
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2
Back when we were gearing up for the invasion of Iraq, one of the questions that was asked WAY too infrequently was 'Why the rush?" Why Spring of '03 instead of Fall? Why '03 instead of '04? In retrospect, it's now clear that the urgency was precisely to preclude the possibility that Saddam might be cooperative or that heaven forbid, it would be revealed that there were no WMD's
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Today's pressure takes the same form. The faster we act, the easier it is to push through a bad decision. That's exacly the point of the exercise and unfortunately it's all the same people still playing the same game.-
2.1
You might have a point but Obama had access to the strategic plan almost a year ago and he approved changes back in March noted in a confident speech. There is no reason for this to take so long. As the conventional wisdom says, "he's dithering".
This decision has nothing to do wth the election or any other 'information streams,'
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3
Secretary Gates and General McChrystal are resolving another information stream, i.e., the role of our NATO Allies.
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4
No, no, the pitch perfect response would be for Biden to say, "Shut your dumb ass up."
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4.1
Amen
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4.2
that, or "Go f#$% yourself." Either would be fitting.
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4.3
Or maybe, I have been so right on foreign policy issues in the past, i.e first gulf war, the surge etc, maybe I should be honest and tell the American people if we did in fact have the Bush assessment and ask them not to release it. Remember Joe your boss talking about making his the most transparent administration. Where's the beef (truth, in this case) Joe? Maybe you should just STFU.
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4.4
I'm with ohiolib on this one.
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4.5
Only if he said it on the floor of the f@$#ing senate wearing his 5-deferment purple-heart bad-aid....
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5
I have come to the conclusion after repeatedly listening to Dick Cheney on a variety of issues, since he left office, that his goal is to destroy the Republican party.
Dick Cheney is a fairly bright man I am sure, and therefore quite aware that the decisions he and Bush made while they were in power in large part, cost the Republicans the Independent voters like me during the last election.
Not only was Cheney wrong about Afghanistan and Iraq, he was wrong about torture and pretty much everything else. Yet, he continues with great zeal to repeatedly bring the attention of the public to those areas in which the Bush administration performed horribly.Cheney has been reported not to be a very forgiving man and so I am thinking (and might very well be right) that Cheney is on a rampage against his own party because he did not feel supported during the course of the elections, he probably felt attacked and now feels that his legacy has been sullied by the lack of support by his party so he is like a bull in a china shop.
His former chief of staff is even a convicted felon whom President Bush refused to pardon. Not good for a man who is concerned about his legacy.
So Cheney, an angry man is going all out to make sure the Republican party is completely ruined.
The Republicans are also curiously silent about Cheney's contribution to damage against their fractured and directionless party, a party which has to all intents and purposes been co-opted by the coarse base!
There should be efforts made by the Republicans to keep Cheney quiet because every time he speaks, many of us remember the lies we were told, the senseless wars and loss of lives and the horrible economy, a horrible economy which in part can be traced to the massive expenses incurred in concomitantly fighting two wars.
I hope someone tells Cheney to shut up soon.
Hmm... come to think of it, maybe these people are silent because they do not want to get shot in the face and Cheney has been known to miss-shoot on occasion
LM
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5.1
As the lower half of “Dumb and Dumber” Cheney is “too smart” and too full of himself for his own good. I am looking forward to Cheney's forthcoming book “Lies and Deceptions” because it will document that he not only committed War Crimes as defined by The Hague, but War Crimes as defined by the US Constitution. Cheney's supporters are Zombies who fail to realize that the Boob-Chummy-Rumsnuts trio is about 80% responsible for the messes that Obama and Biden are trying to clean up.
Where were those Zombies who are criticizing Obama's efforts to "solve" the war in Afghanistan when they were cheering and believing the lies told by Boob-Chummy-Rumsnuts about why we absolutely HAD to go to war against Iraq?
The Zombies complaining about Obama also fail to realize that it was the friends of Boob-Chummy-Rumsnuts that GOT us into our financial mess in the first place.
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6
Executive Branch abuses of power is not a partisan issue, if we are a nation of laws. While underlings are not at issue for following orders, those who crafted any that are in fact against the laws of the United States, cannot be just given a wink & nod -- saw a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
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7
Can Cheney redo this speech on Halloween?
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The video go nicely with my Sarah Paling Thanksgiving video.
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Maybe soon, the wingnuts will supply us with a complete set of these delightful little Halloween reminders... -
8
Joe-It would be nice you men and women would stop treating the Cheney's et al every utterance like its news. Dick will be in charge of Dick in the future and he has plenty of venues to experess his opinion.
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9
Joe:
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Can you do us a favor?
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There is a seething mass of feces and maggots in that bucket you put out yesterday ("OutFOXed").
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Would you please empty it, they are starting to stink...-
9.1
Do you kiss your momma with that mouth 53?
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10
:...including, on occasion, me..."
Every now and then Klein lets slip a line that almost confesses that he recognizes the arrogance and carelessness of his journalism. It's a shame, because it's those lousy qualities that prevent taking him seriously. After reading the above, I just rolled my eyes and scrolled down to the comments.
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10.1
Sorry, "almost" should read "almost kinda sorta."
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10.2
Bingo Angel. Just read this by Greenwald about our political-media elite:
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"Lounging around in the editorial offices in the capital of a rapidly decaying empire, urging that more Americans be sent into endless war paid for with endless debt, while yawning and lazily waving away with boredom the hordes outside dying for lack of health care coverage, is one of the most repugnant images one can imagine." -
10.3
jc, it sounds like the Beltway elite would be okay with providing Americans with health care if it were part of a broader campaign of counter-insurgency.
Hmm. I'd advocate bombing federal buildings and assassinating political leaders, but I'm afraid I'd be mistaken for a Republican. -
10.4
Hellslittleangel,
I am glad you chose a name truly fitting with your remarks. Republicans bomb buildings and assassinate political leaders?? You need to stop smoking whatever it is you are on, seriously!
There is a difference between disagreement on political ideology and accusations of mass murder and terrorism. You just might need to go out a little more, read more than just comics or do a little more than stay online and relieve your private dreams. Ps: Republicans are NOT mass murderers neither are Democrats
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10.5
Whoa, crazy lady, slow down. I didn't suggest Republicans are committing acts of violence, merely advocating them. I'm thinking of Michelle Bachman and the various "refresh the tree of liberty' teabagging lunatics, or the Republican representatives who have called for Taliban tactics or used a target labeled with an opponent's initials for shooting practice, etc, etc, etc.
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Also, it was a flippin' joke already. -
10.6
Kudos to WaPo for addressing their reader's question, "Why fund war with debt but insist that health-care reform be deficit-neutral?" but the editorial reponse (link) is nothing short of mind-blowing. Some excerpts:
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"wars, unlike entitlement programs, eventually come to an end. A guarantee of health care for all, particularly in the context of steadily rising costs, will bankrupt the nation if not matched by a steady stream of revenue...."
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"Universal health care, however desirable, is not 'fundamental to the defense of our people.' Nor is it a 'necessity' that it be adopted this year: Mr. Obama chose to propose a massive new entitlement at a time of historic budget deficits...."
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"So, in answer to our questioner: Wars end, and the spending for them tapers off; entitlement programs must be funded in perpetuity. Wars compel decisions, like the one now at hand; new entitlement programs can be phased in or delayed." -
10.7
There are no angels in hell so I rename you hells little ferocious demon
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Anyway, your remarks imply that those statements were ascribed to Republicans as a group and not Michelle Bachman or others who belong to a group of Right wing extremists.PS: That was a joke, supposedly? It totally sucked!!!
LM
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11
Dick who?
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12
OK, Joe, I think we have a merger of highly apt phrases in the making, combined with Se~nor Elvisberg's "paramedia":
"Cheney's last speech generated a major baloney storm in the paramedia"
Bravo to both of you - the characterization is complete.
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13
It must come with the name Joe
2 blowhards who can talk authoritatively about nothing!!!
Way to tackle the tough issues Joe K. Yes that swooshing noise is the sound of your career and Time circling the drain.
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14
53_3: I don't think I've ever seen so many new names before. The OutFoxed thread sounds like one of my family reunions. (I don't go anymore. Fights always break out)
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14.1
A non-news company following a non-president
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14.2
freeinpa: We're opposite ends of the political spectrum, but I wish everybody could go to one of our reunions. Lots of moonshine, fistfights, extremely loud praying (while incredibly drunk) and then someone always goes and gets a gun and starts firing it into the air to make a point. Desserts ready when the cops break it up.
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14.3
Sounds like my college days
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14.4
The last one I went to, two of my female cousins in their 50's pulled each other's wigs off and wound up going bare knuckles on each other. Nobody even tried to break it up. If you didn't want to get drunk, you didn't even consider drinking out of any of the punch bowls or containers. Everything was spiked. Some were dosed. If you saw somebody lurking around the drinks table, you just assumed they were up to no good. A few of them had to check to see who else was coming so that they didn't violate restraining orders or commit a parole violation.
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14.5
3 of my Aunts only showed up to my Grandfather's funeral to collect thier inheritance.
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14.6
Two years ago when my wife's uncle died, I sat between my wife and my ex-wife. 1st cousins.
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14.7
Not that sounds like my last high school reunion
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14.8
Maybe I should quit before we get down to pre-natal experiences or past life regressions.
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14.9
I've never seen so many turds in one toilet either, sacred. That's why I asked Joe if he could please flush it.
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I think he must have left the back door unlocked...
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15
Health care reform vs Afghanistan escalation.
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http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/24/american_priorities/index.html -
16
I really liked Dick Cheney during the Republican National Convention. Not seen, not heard, not spoken of. That Republican repudiation is the correct treatment of Dick Cheney.
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17
Joe is defending Joe because both have been getting it wrong forever and need to cover each other. Joe and Joe and everyone else on this thread were wrong on much of Afghanistan and Iraq including the surge where it was most obvious and most embarrasing. Tying the problems with the elections with Obama's dithering on troops levels is absurd. The elections have nothing to to with how the military conducts the war. Either Obama gives McChrystal the troops he needssor he should start planning the withdrawal now. Liberals won't support him in either even and Conservatives won't support him if he isn't fighting to win. If he doesn't support McChrysal he loses both camps and will be forced to pull the plug.
As far as the milirary never doing a strategic plan until recently that's absurd. Generals don't go to the bathroom without a strategic plan.
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18
You really don't want to compare Joe Biden to anyone let alone the uber-competent Dick Cheney. Newsweek just ran a cover "Why Joe is no joke".
When a national magazine has to explain why you are not a joke, that means you are a joke. The man is a gaffe machine with no talent other than running his mouth and even he doesn't know what's coming out next.
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18.1
Especially when they refused to print any negative letters to the editor about the article
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19
I sense a disturbance in the force. There is much anger.
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19.1
I lifted the lid over there at the "OutFOXed" thread and regaled them with stories of unspeakable pleasures if they came over while I was peeing, sacred.
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They weren't going for it. They wanted the urine more... -
19.2
Anger is all they have. After all those lost elections thier dreams of the rich getting richer and the middle class dieing in horrible wretched squalor are being squashed.
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19.3
I was just over there too. I offered cookies to come over to the darkside and tossed in a couple of snarks myself. I'm hoping the one about Coulter, Rush and the strap-on triggers a sh!tstorm. Of course I'll be going to work soon so I'll have to wait until morning to see any responses.
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20
It's like opening a cesspool to find writhing maggots surprised in mid-feed.
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I wish there was a way to trap those suckers and dispose of them properly, given that Joe has found a way to attract 'em. Maybe someone could start a business... -
21
Gee, Joe, you mean the foreign policy YOU supported? Until of course, you didn't.
You mean the foreign policy JOE BIDEN supported? Until, of course, he didn't.
The foreign policy CLINTON, JONES, GATES, PANETTA and pretty much Obama's entire war cabinet supported? Until, of course, they didn't.
Seems to me, of everybody in this mess, Obama and Cheney are the only two who should be listened to. Since the rest of you change your minds with every new Pew poll.
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22
I don't know why anyone would listen to Cheney. First he is obviously a coward of the highest order. I believe he took 4 deferments to stay out of Vietnam. He hid in an undisclosed location while the rest of us in DC went back to work with one eye on the sky. He had his subordinate Scooter Libby take the weight for his crime and couldn't even get him the pardon he promised.
Sorry Joe, but when you have to buy Fox network in order to engender enough positive press coverage to win an election you deserve to go the way of the wigs. Of course when you and the rest of the so-called the real media are too stupid or to lazy to know the difference, then you deserve to lose the respect of the people and the market share that ensures your livelihood.
This kind of unrestrained and unquestioned propaganda is what allowed nefarious regimes in the past to flourish. To assume that it can't happen here is ludicrous. All anyone need do is to look at what you people did to the Clintons. The media is directly responsible for brining the Bush-Cheney fiasco to fruition and now you'll be responsible if the public forgets their sins. The country cannot survive a return to the dark side I can only hope if for nothing else than your own selfish reasons that you'll rethink the narrative that your brethren have been pursuing.
The media is poised to Clintonize the Obama administration. And God help us all if you people succeed in indulging yours egos and do the GOP's bidding in the process. Just remember, they have fox. They don't believe in the msm, in fact, they see you as the enemy. Considering their documented willingness to ignore the constitution and pack the court with ideologues don't think any rights are safe even yours.
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22.1
"I don't know why anyone would listen to Cheney. First he is obviously a coward of the highest order. I believe he took 4 deferments to stay out of Vietnam."
Actually, I think the reports were 5. But that is not important. What did Clinton do? I think what should be done is a to take a poll of all elected officials between the ages of 50-70 as to where they were during the Vietnam conflict. How many of them took deferments and why. The Dems always want to blame everyone else for not serving. Now it is time to man up. Where were you then????? From someone who did not take a deferment.
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22.2
"The Dems always want to blame everyone else for not serving."
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That's a lie. The Dems want to blame only those who insist that we should throw more innocent victims on the pyres they've built to their own pride, arrogance and sadism. But it's of no surprise whatsoever that the wingnuts have completely lost the ability to recognize even that rank hypocrisy.
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23
Hi, I will come back to this blog exactly ONE more time. If I see advertising content that purposely overflows its borders and blogs the content I am trying to read, I will never, ever come back again.
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24
The elections have nothing to to with how the military conducts the war.
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So you're OK with using US troops to prop up an unpopular and illegitamate regime?
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Thought so...... -
25
[...] 25, 2009 · Leave a Comment joe klein: Rahm Emanuel’s television appearance last Sunday, in which he said that no decision could be [...]
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