OutFoxed?
Let me be precise here: Fox News peddles a fair amount of hateful crap. Some of it borders on sedition. Much of it is flat out untrue.
But I don't understand why the White House would give such poisonous helium balloons as Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity the opportunity for still greater spasms of self-inflation by declaring war on Fox.
If the problem is that stories bloated far beyond their actual importance--ACORN's corruption, Van Jones's radical past--are in danger of leaching out of the Fox hothouse into the general media, then perhaps the Administration should be a bit more diligent about whom it hires and whom it funds.
If the problem is broader--that Fox News spreads seditious lies to its demographic sliver of an audience--the Administration should probably be stoic: the wingnuts will always be with us. The best antidote to their garbage is elegant, intelligent governance. The next-best antidote is occasional engagement: I thought Obama came away from his O'Reilly and Chris Wallace interviews much the better for it. (Though you don't want to sit down with a thug like Hannity or a weirdo like Beck.)
The problem with war is that it diverts attention from the actual news. The Administration has tried to pursue a sophisticated, difficult domestic and foreign policy. It doesn't offer the quick-fix irresponsibility of a tax cut or an invasion. It needs space, time and patience to explain. This is an enervating, midstream moment. It's not certain that the President's efforts from health care to Afghanistan will succeed. We'll know a lot more in a month, but I really hope the White House hasn't launched this attack to fill the public space while the other issues are being sorted out. The long-term costs of stooping to Fox's level are not just bad posture; they are a diminution of the office and its primary occupant.
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1
If the problem is that stories bloated far beyond their actual importance--ACORN's corruption, Van Jones's radical past--are in danger of leaching out of the Fox hothouse into the general media, then perhaps the Administration should be a bit more diligent about whom it hires and whom it funds.
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As I recall, Joe, you've been smeared repeatedly by the extreme right as, among other vile things, an anti-semite. Is the lesson here that TIME should be a bit more diligent about whom it hires?-
1.1
Amen!
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2
Fox declared war on the WH Joe. The first shots were fired on Jan 20, 2009 and the problem as I think the WH sees it is not Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity, its the fact that the antics of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity bleed into Fox's straight news so one can't separate what is really opinion and what is not.
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2.1
I don't blame Fox as much as the rest of the media. Would you blame the Onion if people at the other papers used them as an assignment editor?
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Fox is free to scream about ACORN, Czars, and fluoride in the water sapping and impurifiying our precious body fluids all they want.
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The problem is that the rest of the pack decides to do he said/she said reports on whatever the heck FOX is screaming. They even put the chief lunatic on the cover of a certain magazine and discuss his teabagging rally with either 70,000 or 2,000,000 people attended. 'Who can tell' what's true drivel. -
2.2
Our greatest social problems are ignorance and the fear caused by ignorance. With ignorance and fear, many have lost the ability to look objectively at all sides of an issue and then form an intelligent opinion. Fox and it's narcissistic talk show hosts have seized upon this fact and by blurring the line between news and opinion have created an almost “cult like” following of loyal fearful followers.
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2.3
"its the fact that the antics of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity bleed into Fox's straight news so one can't separate what is really opinion and what is not."
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gysgt: I know you are not the smartest rock in the box as is evident by most of your statements, but even for you this is self degradation. Give yourself some points there buddy. I am sure if you try hard enough, stop listening to the likes of another rock in the box, Joe Klein, you too could discern from what are opinions and what is actual news.
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It truly is not that hard to understand that ACORN as an example, a former employer of Barack HUSSEIN Obama, is one of the most corrupt far left liberal groups on planet earth. Van Jones IS an admitted communist who Barack INSANE Obama hired for God knows what reason.
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You see people like Joe Klein who have somehow have been promoted to a position of national journalistic are no better or worse than Hannity or Beck, it is simply a liberal versus conservative opinion. His wacked out ideas versus theirs.
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As Joe's claim...
"If the problem is broader--that Fox News spreads seditious (truth that is difficult for the likes of Joe Klein to copmrehend, so they resort to 3rd grade name calling) lies to its demographic sliver (commanding lead in the cable news demographic) of an audience--"
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When in fact that "sliver" is growing faster than all of Joe Klein's short hairs...
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" Fox News soars in ratings -- Bill O'Reilly rolls "
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http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/zontv/2009/09/fox_news_bill_oreilly_mad_men_1.html
.It is really is depressing that a once great magazine like TIME hired media hacks like Joe Klein, and now their once great magazine has been relegated to the position next to the other mix of rag mags of the STAR and Examiner. Joe's articles are nothing more than simple opinions to further the far left extremist agendas.
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"TIME, once a great and powerful magazine. Now, simply shredded toilet paper for dairy cows to pi$$ and $hit on!! -
2.4
As usual, rustyreturns, you've used more words than necessary to flaunt your ignorance.
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" Fox News soars in ratings -- Bill O'Reilly rolls "???
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Sadly, No. This is yet another example of media gasbags inventing facts to support their Conventional Wisdom™.
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2.5
Rusty I've got to disagree with you just a skoshe. I was a Time reader for many years and I can remember when Joe Klein was an actual reporter and actually worth reading - as was Time as a whole. But long ago they went over the bias falls, seemingly together.
All the hate, bile, and screaming nonsense that Joe and his pals on here are so willing to blame on Fox is actually just a milder version of the stuff they peddle themselves. As you so correctly point out - it's just that it's a liberal saying it so it's "different". Go back and read Joes love filled columns from 2007 on. It's hate and hate and more hate.
Thank god for Fox News, at least there is one media outlet not peddling that pure, sweet, liberal truth.
Whine all you want libs: you're still 5 networks and 2 news weeklies ahead of us. It just galls you that you don't have them all. Maybe you should grow up?
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2.6
Speaking of gasbags, ifthethunderdontgetya, you links to some opinion pieces don't empress me. Try this for overall rating of fox vs the other cable channels and look at O Reilly's numbers. Also please note that the original info. came from Nielson.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/the_scoreboard_thursday_october_22_141165.aspThe fact that Joe states that the ACORN and Van Jones story have no actual importance says it all. EVERYONE know that if these 2 issues were tied to a Republican they would have been MSM for at least a week. We would probably be having congressional hearings going on right now to get to the bottom of things. Joe, your bias is blatantly obvious. Time this is why I don't read you anymore. I only get hear from links at other sites.
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3
Joe, I disagree. Two words: Swift Boat. Read this and watch both videos, please.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/democrats-should-stay-off_b_331183.html -
4
The problem with war is that it diverts attention from the actual news.
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Whose attention? Not the administration's; Pres. Obama said, after being pressed in questioning, that he isn't losing any sleep over it. Sure, maybe the media will pay a lot of attention to this. But that's because the media is terrible at reporting the news. If it weren't this, it'd be balloon boy II, or some Jackson family member interview, or Jon & Kate. So what?
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All the administration did was what's said in that link: "We simply decided to stop abiding by the fiction, which is aided and abetted by the mainstream press, that Fox is a traditional news organization," said deputy White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer. What's so bad about that? Fox isn't news. WWF isn't sports. No one thinks either should be banned.
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As has been pointed out, there was much less media fulmination over much more important anti-media actions by the Bush administration.
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That is because the media treats Glenn Greenwald as someone to put down in occasional blog posts, while considering Glenn Beck their assignment editor (see, e.g., Jay Newton Small's latest offering).-
4.1
Oh, btw, "sedition" is a pretty creepy word... "disinformation," for sure, but sedition?
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4.2
I'm with Elvis. This is a brief, well warranted flurry of setting the record straight and knocking an antagonist's credibility. It may be useful to alert a modest part of the country to the incessant fraudulence of "Fox News," and it's not like it consumes a significant portion of the administration's efforts. A few open minds will be alerted, no preconceived attitudes are likely to be changed, and Faux is on notice that it can't expect to operate forever beneath the fray.
Joe, you can't say credibly this is just a distraction while you and your colleagues keep focused on it beyond all justification. Your Drudginess is showing, even as you offer your "leave it alone" analysis.
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4.3
Just to further the point about how terrible the media is at reporting the news:
72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will give coverage to illegal immigrants, 79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover, 69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and 75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly. But it would be incorrect to suggest that this is ONLY coming from conservative viewers who tune in to FOX. In fact, 41% of CNN/MSNBC viewers believe the misinformation about illegal immigrants, 39% believe the government takeover stuff, 40% believe the abortion misperception, and 30% believe the stuff about pulling the plug on grandma.
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So, the MSM is terrible at reporting the news because it is too lazy and intimidated to fact check, while the right-wing paramedia is terrible at reporting the news because an ill-informed populace serves their interests.
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It's not just that Fox is cursed with morons as viewers, who wind up misinformed despite its best efforts-- it intentionally slants the news to comply with the interests of the Party:
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http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink/2003/10/30/fox_thememo.html
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http://mediamatters.org/research/200407140002 -
4.4
The problem with the Massively Overpaid Corporatist/Mainstream Media reporters (as opposed to the Fox Republican Propaganda Channel so-called reporters) is that they have become celebrities, and perpetuating their own wealth and celebrity has become -- or perhaps always was -- more important to them than real reporting.
If the Obama administration really wants to demonstrate the nature of the problem, as long as the White House Press Cabal continues to defend the Fox Propaganda Channel, the White House Press Office (and all the administration's department press offices) should provide press credentials for other cable TV celebrities, at least three celebrities per interview opportunity, and make sure that the Fox Propaganda Channel's so-called reporter is photographed in the presence of these other cable celebrities. There are so many to choose from! I'm thinking they should start with Alton Brown from the Food Channel, Richard Dunn from the Cartoon Network, and you want to see their heads explode? Kathy Griffin from Bravo!
Other superb candidates, with every bit as much credibility as Major Garrett, would include Joel McHale of E!'s "The Soup", Dennis Gage of Speed TV's "My Classic Car", and R. Lee Ermy of the History Channel's "Lock 'n Load". The possibilities are endless!
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4.5
Factchecking's easy elvis. Anyone with a computer can do it, and you best believe MSMer's are constantly checking. Including Joe Lib. Sucky part is they just don't seem to find anything. A made up generalization here and there, nothing with any traction. Sad.
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4.6
"Paramedia."
Briliant, E-Berg! Conveys the perfect blending of ersatz facts and militia logic.
Is it yours, or who gets the HT?
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4.7
Thanks, dollared! Glad you like the phrase. I am pretty sure that I made it up. I also wanted to get at the fact that while it engages in some media-related program activities, it isn't actually the "media."
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4.8
Elvis. Fox may be cursed with morons, but their ad department needs to start airing more commercials for guns, cheap booze, tin foil, duct tape and easy to install bunkers.
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4.9
4.3Just to further the point about how terrible the media is at reporting the news:
72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will give coverage to illegal immigrants, 79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover, 69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and 75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.
Sorry, Elvis. I can't let this stand.
1. Illegal immagration
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/R40773.pdf
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/28/liberals-seek-health-care-access-for-illegals/
ect.
2. Government takeover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_SGGcJu_c
enough said, but I would just like to add that this is the ONLY reason that health care reform is on the table. THE ONLY REASON.
3. Abortion. The Jury is still out on this one, but that it has been pushed to be in is true.
4 "Death Boards"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7Y0TOBuG4Get informed Elvis.
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5
The ACORN scandal is a lie? Van Jones is not a radical commie? I think the anger at Fox News(THE most watch news network in America) stems from fear, plain and simple. Truth just naturally has that certain ring to it, and that has the WH very afraid.
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5.1
Answer #1: Hyperbolic at best, a lie at worst.
A#2: You apparently are a mouse to Blech's Pied Piper.Opinion disguised as truth isn't truth, 2/3. Opinion is opinion. Reporting the news per se doesn't generate huge ratings if that's all Fox did. It's illustrated talk radio!
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5.2
The reason Faux is "THE most watch [sic] news network in America" is this: there is a significant benighted minority unwilling to let honest reporting interfere with their prejudices. 'Twas ever thus, and Faux is their current refuge from the truth.
I'm glad Faux is on the air – it tells me a lot about the people who watch it. I always say let the Klan march down Main Street, in the daylight sans masks, so we can see who they are.
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5.3
Another reason why FOX exists is that like a waterhole in a drought stricken plain, it's the only place where people like you can drink that particular flavor of Kool Aid.
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It really doesn't take a lot to figure this out, 2/3rds... -
5.4
Aww man, there's that pesky fly again.
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5.5
You mean those facts, 2/3rds?
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Too bad they are so bothersome... -
5.6
Doesn't life truly suck for you? Too bad though, 2/3rds. I'd take up drinking, if I were you.
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If you haven't already... -
5.7
Oh for heaven's sake! That's seriously silly.
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5.8
53_3's comment brought to you by ACORN
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5.9
"THE most watch [sic] news network in America" is this: there is a significant benighted minority unwilling to let honest reporting interfere with their prejudices."
Hey not just the most watched - watched by the most balanced audience in cable news too!
38% of Fox's audience self identifies as Democrats - and there really is no more "benighted minority" than Democrats is there?
MSNBC features a full 90% democrat audience and CNN 80%. Now that's balance! Of course it's news: everyone on it agrees with me! Right?
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6
Sedition? Too far, I think. Let them have their wingnut monologues.
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7
Huh, JK's 1234th post....
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8
Leftist loon Joe Klein should stick to fabricating loony (at least to the thinking, pro-America community) lies that "Donald Rumsfeld" declared (according to leftist fabulist Joe Klein) that Lt. General "David McKiernan" would never take another command because according to Klein's comically false, debunked and discredited allegation that "McKiernan" fell asleep in "Rumsfeld's" presence.
BTW, Lt. General McKiernan was promoted to General and given command of U.S. Army Europe. When did that promotion and change of command take place? Answer: While "Donald Rumsfeld" was Secretary of Defense.
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9
"The problem with war is that it diverts attention from the actual news."
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That's correct but the problem is Ailes and Murdoch setting the news agenda for your industry not Obama pointing out that that agenda is not the actual news. Here, let someone who actually understands the relationship between politics and the corporate media explain it to you:http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/respecting-bing-by-digby-so-all.html
Rupert and Roger are making a move to dominate the media agenda and they aren't afraid to use muscle to do it. They are enemies, there's simply no doubt about it. Roger Ailes is a Republican political operative, fergawdsake, who also happens to be a television genius and Rupert Murdoch is a conservative billionaire who seeks to dominate the media of the entire planet. If you don't take them seriously, you are a fool --- and all the Democrats and the political establishment had better wake up to what they are dealing with.
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9.1
There's that fear again. Better get Soros on the phone.
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10
You're right, Joe; there's no profit in this action.
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11
Calling someone a liar = declaring war.
What will you call it if someone sues Fox for libel? bombing them back to the Stone Age?
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12
Joe, if you can't see the need for this action, if you can't see how Faux narratives spread throughout the msm (both the Timers and the Post recently saying they needed to pay more attention to RW "stories"), then perhaps you need to choose another profession - one that doesn't require connecting more than two dots.
The WH has simply said that Faux isn't a real news organization. You said as much above.
So what is the problem?
And Faux is now on the defensive, needing to constantly say: "we are too a news organization, yes we are. Waaaaaahh!"
You might read Steve Benen's take on this for a coherent discussion of the problem: WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE?....
And you might ask yourself why your profession has so much difficulty calling out members who fail so badly - or do you think, like Tapper, they are a "sister organization?"
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12.1
Most of the media [has] been slow to recognize the pervasive impact of this fifth column in their ranks – that is, day after day, injecting the daily Republican talking points into the definition of what's objective as stated by the news media as a whole,” Gore said.
“Something will start at the Republican National Committee, inside the building, and it will explode the next day on the right-wing talk-show network and on Fox News and in the newspapers that play this game, the Washington Times and the others. And then they'll create a little echo chamber, and pretty soon they'll start baiting the mainstream media for allegedly ignoring the story they've pushed into the zeitgeist. And then pretty soon the mainstream media goes out and disingenuously takes a so-called objective sampling, and lo and behold , these RNC talking points are woven into the fabric of the zeitgeist.” [New York Observer, posted on Nov. 27, 2002]
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13
"Declaring war"? Lighten up, you drama queen.
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They've merely said what everyone -- including you -- knows. Fox News is not impartial, but is an advocate for the Republican Party.
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This isn't remotely close to Nixon's enemies list, where journalists were singled out for IRS audits and worse. It's not even close to the very public shots that the Bush administration took against Newsweek, MSNBC, NBC, and various newspapers.
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All the White House did was say what everyone knows, and you cowards in the media get the vapors. Sweet Jesus, Joe, sack up.-
13.1
So what do call them trying to get rid of the insurance anti-trust exemption a week after they said the healthcare bill would drive up insurance cost? What do you call them not wanting to let Fox News into the press room yesterday until all the other reporters said they wouldn't go in there either unless Fox was there? Fox is more balanced than any of the other news organizations. Of course they have their opinion shows, but so do the other networks(Keith Olbermann). When it comes to straight reporting, Fox is the best at it.
Do you remember the Pew Research poll that said Fox was the most ballanced during the campaing doing the same number of positive and negative stories for both guys(Obama 25% positive, 40% negative; McCain 22% positive, 40% negative). While MSNBC ran negative stories about McCain 73% of the time and positive stories 10% of the time. MSNBC also ran negative stories about Obama 14% of the time while running positive stories 43% of the time.
http://www.journalism.org/node/13437#Fox isn't ultra right, they are just more balanced while the other news groups are to the left.
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14
When the people fear the government, it's called tyranny. When the government fears the people, it's called liberty. Go Fox Go!
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14.1
I fear most of the people. Is that liberty, too?
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14.2
I fear the delusional nuttards who watch Fox.
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14.3
And FoxNews is "the people" how? It's a partisan news organization owned by a very rich conservative (Murdoch) and run by a GOP operative. (Ailes) News flash...they care about ratings because it makes them money. They don't care about you. They don't care if the GOP remains out of power for the next 50 years. The longer your gang is out of power, the angrier you'll be, and you'll tune into FoxNews more and more as your emotional outlet. You'll be putting money in Rupert and Roger's pockets while your party sinks deeper and deeper into irrelevancy. That's also what drives Rush. Sure, these folks are conservatives...but their loyalty is to themselves and their bank accounts, not the conservative movement and not the Republican Party. The stupidity of today's GOP is evident in the fact that they continue to let themselves get used like this.
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I'm sure you're about to tell me how FoxNews is, by far, the most popular cable news network. True...but the operative word here is "cable". The large majority of Americans, if they watch news at all, get it from the big networks and local affiliates. In 3Q 09, FoxNews average 2.25M viewers in prime time. There are 300M people in this country. The large majority of folks in the US do NOT watch FoxNews.
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If television news is "the people" then the Republican Party has been running scared for years since they've been ranting and raving about "the liberal media" (ie - everybody but Fox) for over 40 years. -
14.4
They call that paranoia, guys. Time to switch the meds.
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14.5
Owned by a very rich conservative, ogliberal? Is this the same Rupert Murdoch who endorsed B.O and predicted he would win the election? He owns the whole fox network, whose prime time lineup is anything but conservative. Not to mention several mainstream newspapers, and "batroom rags.
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14.6
Not when you consider the fact that right wing terrorists have killed 11 people on American soil, 2/3rds.
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The last was two weeks ago.
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Now, it is fairly elementary when you consider that in the same span of time, Al Queda has oh-ferred!
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You can keep spouting rhetoric, 2/3rds of a nut, but the facts don't seem to be cooperating with you... -
14.7
Yeah I'd say Fox news is the people. Just look at the ratings. Start checking at 5:00 pm, You'll find Glen Beck at his usual no.1 spot. Sure is a lot of us wingnut kooks out there I guess. That must account for your fear. Boo!
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14.8
Uh, I hate to say it (Nah! Really! I don't!), but 2/3rds, you're dumber than a warm rock on a windowsill.
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When you troll the entire ocean for a rare fish, you'll find yourself with one hell of a catch!
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On top of that, there is likely large overlaps of the different shows.
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In orther words, bozo, their viewership numbers don't prove a damned thing... -
14.9
Murdoch - well, the NY Post - begrudgingly endorsed Obama in the NY Dem primary...that's it. (and that's because they HATE Hillary) Rupert Murdoch did NOT endorse Obama to win the presidency. Only a complete fool would believe that. As for predicting that Obama would win...well, duh? That wasn't exactly a risky prediction, was it?
Murdoch is not a very rich conservative? Ha, ha, ha!
And what say you re: Roger Ailes?
As for Fox's complete viewing lineup...again, Rupert is all about the benjamins. He's not going to cancel The Simpsons because the show made fun of Bush. And that's why you're delusional if you think FoxNews is speaking truth to power and looking out for poor, oppressed conservatives like you. They are using you (and the GOP) - deal with it.
And while I pre-empted your "Look at how many people watch" FoxNews by puttig their viewing numbers in relative perspective - ie, only a very small percentage of the populations watches FoxNews - you went ahead and cited cable news ratings anyway. Again, 300M people in this country. FoxNews' average viewing audience in 3Q09 - 2.25M
And you're calling people here paranoid? Hasn't your side been complaining about the evil "liberal media" for decades? Doesn't your side think that Obama has a secret plan to destroy our nation? Doesn't your side think that the WH calling out FoxNews is the same as Nixon's enemies list? Glenn Beck is a one big giant ball of paranoia. (not that he really believes half the stuff he says - he's using you and laughing all the way to the bank) You're calling people paranoid?
Facts and reality - things with which FoxNews viewers are completely unfamiliar.
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14.10
Predicting Obama would win the Presidency was about as hard as predicting that Palin would fail the MENSA test.
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15
I find it interesting that so many so called journalists take umbrage over the fact that the WH has outed Fox News as the media arm of the GOP. Its a shame that those so called journalistics don't hold their bretheren, or themselves, to any sort of journalistic standard and the doctrine of falso equivalence rules the day. One wonders why the WH finds it necessary to step into the breech when so called journalists won't.
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I know its frustrating that the WH is so adept, when it wants to be, at avoiding the filter.
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Perhaps those so called journalists should start doing their jobs ... so the WH doesn't have to. -
16
Gotta disagree Joe.
Besides the relentless personal slanders, survey after survey shows Fox's viewers to be consistently and monumentally misinformed about urgent and important issues of both domestic and foreign policy.
For instance, Fox viewers believe:
- We found WMD in Iraq
- Saddam was in cahoots w/ bin Laden
- Climate change is a hoax & needn't be addressed
- Various hard working gov't officials ("Czars") are some kind of commie plot or illegal power grab
- Health care = death panels
- Wall Street is just fine w/o any regulations
- etc etc etcAn informed electorate is crucial to democracy, and Fox is a 24/7 font of disinformation. BHO can't pull the plug on Fox, but there's no reason he should legitimize it or treat it like an actual journalistic enterprise. It exists to pump out whatever bilge Rupert Murdoch thinks will make him a buck on any given day, and the more people who understand that the better this country will be.
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16.1
slowp
Provide citations for these surveys and differentiate for me how Fox is any different from MSNBC, aside, of course, from the way MSNBC slobbers all over BO.
Joe
Since when is dissent seditious?
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17
I don't know why yall are wasting key strokes on Joke Line. He is a member in good standing of the Village and therefore he HAS to say the White House is getting it wrong even though he himself has quoted FoxNews erroneously about the same Van Jones who is still smearing to this day. Joke Line thinks the winds are blowing in FoxNews' favor today so he will go with them. A month or so down the line when the real media stops following FoxNews' lead Joke Line will come back and say it was a brilliant move. Just like he always does.
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But for now no matter how many videos you show him or good points you make Joke Line will continue to follow the Villager script in calling this a bad move for the White House that diminishes Pres Obama. It is what it is.-
17.1
You mean...you mean...Joe's a *gasp* concern troll ?
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Say it ain't so, SG!!
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18
A few points:
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1. Joe, when you and your colleagues stop taking your queues from FoxNews and Drudge, then maybe we can just sit back, laugh at them, and ignore them. As long as your professions chases non-stories started by these partisan outlets, I'm all for the WH pointing out the obvious.
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1a. Related - Now that FoxNews has been called out by none other than the WH, you folks will probably think twice before joining one of the many Beck/Drudge non-issue wild goose chases.
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2. This isn't really about FoxNews...it's about tying the Republican Party to FoxNews, just like they did with Limbaugh. Something must be working right...for all the talk of the death of the Dem majority and the GOP resurgence, Republican approval levels are at their lowest level in modern history. (with Dems still poll at or above 50%)
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3. Had the WH not pointed out the obvious, would Joe Klein have ever written, "Fox News peddles a fair amount of hateful crap. Some of it borders on sedition. Much of it is flat out untrue"? (sedition is certainly a stretch but the rest is spot on)
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4. The WH probably spent about a total of 5 collective hours on this FoxNews strategy. They've moved on, except for the 30 or seconds Gibbs has to spend everyday responding to Tapper's "how dare you" questions. Journalists are still ranting and raving about it days later.
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5. Ignoring partisan outlets with big megaphones like FoxNews and Drudge is reason why so many people in this country continue to believe that Obama wasn't born in the United States or why John Kerry went from being decorated war hero to cowardly, lying traitor in the eyes of many Americans.
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7. If FoxNews isn't an arm of the GOP, why is the GOP taking such offense at the fact that the WH made this claim? (ditto their response to the WH's similar statements re: Rush) Do you ever see the Democratic Party defending the bazillion charges of "liberal media" made by the wingnuts against every news organization that isn't FoxNews? It's almost as if the GOP is defending, well, their party's media arm/communications shop.
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8. Dems and administration officials are still going to show up on FoxNews...I guarantee it. And when they do, folks will say, "Wow, they think that FoxNew isn't a real news organization but their still giving them the time of day. That's big of them...shows me they (the Dems/WH) aren't afraid of big bad Rupert."
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9. The best part of all of this is watching folks like Joe and Tapper hit the fainting couch - "How dare you insult FoxNews..I might work there someday!" (Tapper), "This is so beneath the presidency!" (Joe)
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10. It's about effing time the Dems got a set of cojones and did this.-
18.1
You need to take a longer view. Obama is being played. It's a test. He's failed. He's letting Fox get inside his head. It isn't just that Fox is the largest by far of the cable outlets it that Fox is one link in a media chain that includes talk radio and the internet, Foxnews at 6PM gets about 10% the total of the networks but a decade ago it was 0%. Bill O'reilly gets a little over 5M a night while Katie Couric gets a little over 5M a night. Bill's audience increases each year and Katie's decreases. This time next year Bill will move closer to 6M while Katie will move closer to 4M. By 2012 Bill will likely be over 6M and Katie lucky to be over 4M.
As poorly as Obama has fared Joe has been much worse. He wants to be Krauthammer. Charles is both a journalist and an influencial intellect. Joe Klein gets quoted when he gets stupid, as in seditious. Even his fans on this blog aren't taking sedition seriously. Charles gets quoted every day. Joe's problem isn't O'reilly, Obama's problem isn't O'Reilly. Their problem is Charles. His audience on Fox is near 2M. hIs audience after his Fox transcrpit gets reprinted by blogs and talk radio is 20M. Charles is more influencial than Katie, Charlie and Brian combined. Fox made Charles more possible. But they're only part of the story.
Fox is growing, Time is shrinking. ABCNews is shrinking. Tick, Tick. Tick
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19
I disagree with you, Joe.
The bigger problem with Fox is that the rest of the MSM is afraid of them and will follow their lead without question. In the last 20 years or so reporters seem more interested in proving they are not liberal, as opposed to actually covering real news.
Just look at the different way Clinton and Bush Jr were treated. The MSM fell over backwards to always give the Bushies the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't until Katrina that there started to be real serious discussion in the news about the failure of the Bush administration. If the Bush was the one with an old land deal and Clinton had a fuzzy National Guard record in Arkansas, how do you think the press would have handled those reverse sitations? I can tell you: they would have scoffed at any charge that Bush's Whitewater deal was worthy of futher investigation and heeded the rightwing's call to unearth what really happened when Clinton was a pilot in the National Guard.
If the rest of the media would ignore Fox and just cover the news the way they used to when anchors like Chronkite were in charge then I'd agree with you. But since Fox is now driving the story, Democrats have to defend themselves and point out the lies Fox tells and remind Americans again and again Fox is a dishonest media outlet.
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20
I see Fox the same way the White House sees Fox... as a harmful entity that needs to be exposed for what they are, a network for the very wealthy to spread lies and intolerence all to put more money into the pockets of the richest Americans without caring about the damage it is doing to the rest of us. Murdoch and Fox have done more harm to this country than any terrorist. The White House knows what they need to do and what they are doing is very effective. I applaud them.
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21
I'd answer the question you pose in para #2, Joe, but since you're advocating capitulation to FOX News in para #3, essentially letting Ailes run the White House again, I'm going to explain it to everyone else:
Because it's got FOX off-message on HCR and looking like a bunch of whiny paranoiacs, screaming about "enemies lists."
Besides, why shouldn't the WH say what everyone knows?
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22
Joe: it seems that the White House journalists (Tapper and Co) refused to attend a briefing if their Fox News counterpart was not invited. OTOH I have read that the Fox journalists in the White House corps are called upon to ask questions.
Why is it okay for the MSM to go after the WH and then go into "squeal mode" when they receive a punch in return.
It ought to be obvious to anyone that most of us don't get our news from those self important asses in the WH Press Corp front row. (Helen Thomas excepted). And I don't care about Fox News' complaints because Murdoch and Ailes are not interested in "straight" news: their bottom line is the dollar.
We simply cannot have one rule for the Villagers and another for the ROU. Journalists don't enjoy respect any longer. They have to work to earn it like every one else.
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23
Ah Joe...GROW UP! 'declared war on Fox'? REALLY??? and the punishment is??? C'mon. FOX lies and distorts Obama and the WH's comments ALL the time...the WH points that out...and they've declared WAR??? Fox may have some journalists over there but that doesn't make a NEWS NETWORK. Honest to Pete you guys (the MEDIA) just get into a big group HUG and spew how THEY are attacking you. No! They are trying to stop the LYING. Wanna have a POLICY discussion? OK, let's TRY...
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24
One of the most ironic things I've seen recently was the right-wing media response to the teabag protester who had a portion of his finger bitten off by a man he was arguing with. On some right wing broadcasts they were playing the victim card for all it was worth. "How dare that vile lefty bite the finger off of this fine, upstanding right-wing patriot?!" they would cry.
The irony came during the interviews with the teabagger. When asked what he was doing when he was so viciously bitten by the lefty, his reply was that he was busy punching the man in the face.
We've seen what happens when you don't answer attacks. Swift-boating is effective because people assume that if you don't answer a charge it's because you can't. We've also seen what happens when you shine a light on lies. The propagandists have had the 'death panel' lie blow up in their faces due to a vigorous response.
Fox will continue catering to the right-wing's fringe, and will continue to enjoy a loyal viewership amongst that group. But it is becoming a pyrrhic victory for them, as the American public continues to flee the hard right in larger and larger numbers.
I think the White House is handling this one just right.
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24.1
More like fleeing TO the right. It's amazing to watch liberals wander through life with rose colored Obama glasses.AS usual there's zero commentary on just what was this big lie FOX has told. Just about all of it is either video, or the actual comments from different interviews. You may think appointing czars without any Congressional oversight, into positions, that not only set policies, but have input into bills in the process of being written. You may not care that a man like Jones is an avowed communist, but most freedom loving Americans find it appalling. And ACORN, how can anyone with a modicum of common sense even begin to defend that corrupt organization. If the right was as crazy as some liberals would like to think, there would be a case for a recount, just based on the fact that over 30% of the voters they register are fraudulent.
You people are really catching on to your leader and his Alinsky tactics, demonizing your opponents without having to address the issues. Shame on TIME for reprinting this mans extremism. The left has developed some sort of collective amnesia, they seem to forget they way they conducted themselves for the last eight years. Everyone has a bias to his opinion. What has happened to democrats? -
24.2
Man are you wrong, and Fox is the only news media out there telling the people what is going on. Look at the tax cheats and crooks that are in the White House, next it will be Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers and Rezko when he gets out of prison.
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25
You are are the wrong side of this one Joe. You know very well what it is FOX does. You and your ilk need to have the courage to call them on it. That is unless you are afraid of losing your spot at the "journalist's buffett".
Just imagine: Joe K. The one who exposed FOX for what it really is. Do an expose Joe. Hit em' hard Joe. Speak real truth to power. Demand an accounting. What fun...
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25.1
What in the world is there to expose about Fox? What lies do they tell? No one here. No one. Has actually given any examples of anything they've aired that is untrue. ACORN? Truther Vanjones? That reporting was all accurate. What would Joe call Fox on? And as for Joe's comment: "Let me be precise here: Fox News peddles a fair amount of hateful crap. Some of it borders on sedition." Sedition? What about "dissent is the highest form of patriotism?" Oh, that's right. That adage only applied when the Evil Bush was in power. You libtards are so silly. You're desperate as you see your "president" Barry 0bamao's polling numbers plummet, while all of his signature issues go up in smoke. His first year is an epic fail. In the latest Rasmussen poll, Republicans are beating Democrats in 10 out 10 issues important to the American people and twice as many Americans call themselves conservatives as they do liberals. Democrats are about to get smacked down in NJ and VA. In short, you're losing. I know it hurts. But it will all be over with in 2012 when Barry gets sent back to Chicago to be a community organizer again (whatever that is). And by the way, you can't "speak truth to power" to a news organization. You do that to the government, which is the only entity that has real power--that is, a monopoly on the legitimate use of deadly force. That's what Fox news does (and it just makes Barry get his panties all in a twist). What fun...
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