More Republicans for Obamacare
Okay, maybe it's not enough to call a groundswell. But after former Majority Leader Bill Frist told me last Friday that he would end up voting for the bill were he still in Congress (with some caveats about the shortcomings of the legislative language as it now stands), we've heard from some other GOP voices in support of the basic contours of Barack Obama's health care reform effort: Bush Administration HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg (who ran as a Republican, but who is now an independent)* and Mark McClellan, who ran both the Food and Drug Administration and the Medicare and Medicaid programs under George W. Bush.
But what was more striking, in its own way, was this op-ed yesterday by Louisana Governor Bobby Jindal, making what the headline described as a "conservative case" for health reform. Why? Because much of what Jindal calls for is in the legislation, as Washington and Lee University Law Professor Timothy Stoltzfus Jost notes here.
And in the San Francisco Chronicle, Carolyn Lochhead points out that Jindal's deeper critique is with his own party:
Today Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal stepped up his calls for Republicans to join the health care debate. Does anyone notice this this is an admission that his party has been AWOL? Jindal says there's no way the Democratic bill can pass, but after Democrats give up on their "grand experiment," he says, "Republicans have to join the battle of ideas."
This is not the first conservative criticism that Republicans have lost their intellectual moorings. Jindal offers several ideas tracking these suggestions from Joseph Antos at the American Enterprise Institute: promote better competition among insurers and providers; promote informed consumer choice and accountability; cap the tax exclusion; replace Medicare administered pricing with competitive bidding, and cap malpractice awards.
Consensus is forming around two ideas: Democrats are not doing enough to lower costs (a little-noticed Goldman Sachs research paper said what other experts have been warning: rising health care costs will outstrip the tax revenues Democrats are counting on to pay for expanding care unless actual delivery reforms are enacted too); and the status quo is unsustainable.
Sounds like grounds for compromise.
Not likely. After all, these Republicans who are speaking out all have one thing in common: None of them actually has a vote in either house of Congress.
*My gratitude to commenter Destor23 for that correction.
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1
Here is what can't understand about some journalists, how many times does a duck have to quack before they acknowledge its a duck?
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How hard are they reaching to try to paint Jindal's oped as some kind of call for Republicans to join the debate? Jindal has said the debate is over hasn't he? That nobody wants the Democratic plan. You know the one that journalists already point out contain much of what he claims to be asking for? And still nobody is really calling this out for what it blatantly is, just another attempt make it appear that a Republican or some Republicans "would" be working toward health care reform, if only they were in the Congress and if only those mean old Democrats would listen.
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Its warmed over bullsh*t and its the same line that the Republicans in Congress are saying too aside from the fact that aren't going to lie and say they might vote for something and risk angering their wingnut base. But hey, why let all of the facts pounding you over the head that this is nothing but pure politics when there is a "Jindal's really a moderate" story to be written write?
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To clarify my beef isn't necessarily with you KT but with the journalists who seem incapable of calling bullsh*t even when their nose is filled with the stench.-
1.1
I'm genuinely shocked to find that ant reasonable, intelligent person can see the Jindal Op-Ed as anything other than diversionary poo-flinging.
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1.2
I think the media doesn't call the right out on their BS because they are too scared that the howler monkeys will then start screaming how the MSM is: in the tank for Obama, out of touch with hard working Americans or on the side of the liberal coastal voters. The right has done an excellent job of putting a choke chain on the media. And the media has totally fallen for it.
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2
My biggest fear is that Republicans will vote for that awful bipartisan Senate Finance health reform.
The bill is bad and not only because it does not have a Public Option.
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3
Isn't Bloomberg technically an independent, or did he switch back?
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3.2
Thanks Karen. Wasn't trying to correct ya, I actually didn't know. And he's my mayor so how sad is that? (Not that I've ever voted for him...)
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KT-As you point out none of these are in currently in the Senate or House and the republican leadership in both those institutions are not looking to them for guidance. What we have here to me is a chance for opportuntist to get their name in the paper. Not all but some.
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4.1
Or perhaps an indication that, once you are out of politics, you can say what you actually believe?
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4.2
Or perhaps, KT, it's a case of stating the obvious and getting your name in the papers when you have no real dog in the fight.
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5
Karen:
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I am glad that you have finally printed an article / blog posting about Republican support for HCR. However, I think you are way off base as to a "ground swell" of Republican support for the current Democrat proposals on how to acheive HCR.
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I will first note to set your record straight, that Bloomberg is NOT a Republican any longer. He identifies himself as an Independent. Please clarify that within your erroneous statements.
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Second point I shall make is that while you cite a source in the Politico article, Jost. Jost is also way off on his statistical assumptions. He cites one source to back his claim that Americans are in favor of health care reform as it is currently proposed. This is absolutely false. 4 other polling groups continue to put disfavor of the current HCR at below 50%, though I will admit since Obama went on the talk shows, and his Sunday address to 4 or 5 Sunday talk shows those numbers have improved slightly.
Here are the 4 other sources.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2009/09/polling_on_health_reform.html
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"However, only 35 percent of those surveyed said President Barack Obama's reform agenda and the debate in Congress will lead to better health service, while 41 percent said they would expect it to lead to lower costs."
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http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE58T0MY20090930
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/122822/americans-sharply-divided-healthcare-reform.aspx
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I can appreciate your support of the Democrat sponsored and proposed legislation, as it is clear your bias does not provide for a more balanced review and reporting. However, attempting to make it sound like it is either with Bipartisan support, which is absolutely not true, or that the Republicans have been solely on the sidelines and not contributing a single thing to the discussion is blatantly false, and very misleading.
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Republicans in the Senate Finance Committee have made numerous proposals. All of which have been shot down by most Democrats in committee. Those areas which have survived are from Republican Amendments to the bill that a few Democrats have agreed with and passed, despite the Progressive Democrats attempts at defeating them.
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But, as usual there has not been any reporting on those proposals or the resounding Democrat opposition to those proposals except for reports by Fox News to the contrary.
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TIME and the other MSM identified by NBC, CBS and ABC have as usual only reported on the Obama proposals. Neglecting over 50% of the other voices in opposition to the current HCR proposals.
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Perhaps you might want to rethink this article and report on the truth for a change.-
5.1
Perhaps you may also benefit from this report and breakdown of the Baccus Admendment by McClellan who you cite as a Republican who offers explanations and "agrees" with the reform proposals by the Democrats.
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http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/Centers/engelberg/BTC/BTC%20Senate%20Finance/Legislative%20Review%20BTC%20SFC.pdf
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It does a great job on breaking down the bill and provides a block by block description of what each proposal in the bill represents as well as what it does not address in HCR. -
5.2
Here's a good (and brief) look at how Fox News introduces bias into their polling (to achieve oddly negative health care reform approval numbers) from Nate Sliver at FiveThirtyEight.com : http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/10/question-order-may-bias-fox-news-health.html
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5.3
And as usual, stuart et al discount the other polls which are not even Fox News polls. As a matter of fact, if you are only citing Fox News polls, stuart, Fox News themselves will say that their "polling" is non-scientific.
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Perhaps you should ask Nate his feelings on Rassmussen, Gallop, Reuters and Real Clear Politics as to how they pose their questions. Seeing that they also show that opposition to the current ObamaCare is much higher than support of his proposals.
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You people are utterly amazing at spinning things so that they favor your own opinions.
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6
There's a simple reality that underlies this whole situation. While the Democratic caucus flails back and forth over what measures they're willing to take to see that a public option gets included in the final bill, the Republicans march in lockstep to oppose anything in the bill whatsoever regardless of details. The fact that some R's outside of Congress are showing less discipline highlights rather than softens the single mindedness of the Minority caucus.
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Stated another way, the Democrats actually seem to care about the actual contents of the law and it's ultimate effect on people's lives and the Republican's really don't give a rat's a$$ one way or another about anybody but themselves.
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I'd love to believe otherwise, but I can't ignore the evidence that's right before my own eyes.-
6.1
"Stated another way, the Democrats actually seem to care about the actual contents of the law and it's ultimate effect on people's lives and the Republican's really don't give a rat's a$$ one way or another about anybody but themselves."
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And, stated another way, Democrats will pass anything in order to get a Heath Care Reform package passed through Congress no matter the risks, expense or detrimental outcomes to tax payers and consumers.
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Republicans simply want to make sure that the current health care system is not totally destroyed. They want a fair and responsible program of reform. They want to ensure that those who have their own health care insurance now will be able to keep it. They also want to see reforms which will address the cost of health care, not just the expense of purchasing health care insurance. Republicans recognize that health care costs need to be addressed, whereas Democrats are only fixated on the fact that about 20% of Americans currently do not have insurance or elect to not purchase insurance.
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Democrats are willing to risk health care for everyone, in order to give them a Tee Vee ad to run during elections that they provided "all Americans (including illegals) with health care insurance". However, they neglect and refuse to say how much it will actually cost, and how much it will add to the current deficit. Despite Obama's claim that he will veto any bill which increases the deficit one dime, we know that he will sign any bill brought to him that will provide "Universal Healthcare Insurance". -
6.2
Rustydog:
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What risks health care in the future for everyone who has access to it now is both parties' failure to reverse total (public and private) health care spending from reaching 16 percent of our country's wealth (GDP).
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We're being looted, Rustydog, just as surely as Saddam's palaces were gutted. -
6.3
stuart:
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So why do you not engage Democrats on their scam, rather than be a proponent of their bill of health care reform failure for our future?
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No, because demonizing as Karen and the rest of the liberal media does, only provides cover for the Democrats in Congress. This allows them to go forward with a bill that will not work, and risks the insurance of those of us who are fortunate to enjoy health care insurance.
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Throwing the baby out with the bath water mentality has been and always will be a Democrat mainstay for their political agenda.
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The democrat way to solve problems, "just throw more money at it, and hope that it goes away".
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Now we risk the loss of our private health insurance and those on Medicare will lose big time as well so that the democrats can fund their folly.
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I frankly hope this does pass as currently written and you get what you are wishing for. It will spell the end of the Democrat Party once Seniors realize how badly they are being screwed with all the Medicare cuts in this proposal. -
6.4
Lee Iacocca once said " I never made a deal of any lasting quality where the other guy didn't feel that he had also won".
The whole problem with the current situation regarding Healthcare reform is simple to understand. President Obama with a large majority in both the House and the Senate believed they did not need to work with Republicans on Healthcare reform. They could push through a healthcare bill that fits their vision and not have to accept the Republicans views on reform.
The only way to have a truly effective reform is for the Democrats to work with Republicans as full partners on Healthcare Reform. So far bi-partisan efforts have been limited to minor changes to try and pick off a couple liberal Republicans to achieve 60 votes in the Senate.
Good ideas are not limited to the Democrats. What is in the best interest of our citizens is for the Democrats to work with Republicans as full partners in reform and work together for what is best for our country.
PLEASE don't post any replies saying the Democrats have already done that. That would be a lie. They have attempted to rush through their vision of heathcare Reform with little real involvement by Republicans.
L/P need to stop demonizing Republicans. They only have different views on what is best for the citizens of our country. They are not the enemy. -
6.5
"I'd love to believe otherwise, but I can't ignore the evidence that's right before my own eyes."
It's either time for a visit to an optometrist or a psychiatrist as your eyesight has definite issues.
Care about what's in the bill? They care about getting re-elected. Conyers stated he won't read it and would not understand it if he did. Reid has slipped in an amendment to bail out Nevada that will burden other states. They call people liars who say it will not cover abortions or illegal immigrants but vote against any amendment to specifically exclude them.
Republicans are more concerned that once the genie is out of the bottle, it (a new ENTITLEMENT) cannot go back into the bottle. And our children, grandchildren and their grandchildren will be stuck with a growing deficit, sub-par care and an escalating amount of HC rationing.
Most Americans have figured out they can do without the "caring" of big government Democrats
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7
Guess this gaffe takes Jindal out of the 2012 running. A Republican cannot go against Palin';s death panels and survive...
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8
KT-Who coined that term Obamacare and why do think its appropriate to use it?
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8.2
Oh so because this is a blog no one should take it seriously.
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8.3
Because this is a political *blog,*I am assuming our readers are politically attuned and sophisticated enough to recognize *irony.* You may have noticed on the *internet* that many *blogs* employ such devices as *irony* to get their point across. Many have a writing style that might even be deemed *irreverent*
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8.4
KT: Irreverent? Us? Name one single post that I or anyone else has ever posted on here that could be called irreverent.
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8.6
not to get all Queen's English on you but isn't this *ironic* only in the lexicon of Alanis Morissette? Isn't it just sarcasm or hyperbole or something else? Irony is when something is coincidental and contradictory in a humorous or poignant and extremely improbable way.
Like isn't it ironic that the people who claim to love their country the most cheered when their country and President failed to get the Olympics.
Like, isn't it ironic that those who say we should all slow down on healthcare reform because it's only been discussed for the past 60 years or so complain when it takes the President more than a week to decide to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan?
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8.7
Thanks so much for responding to commentary, *KT*.
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Yer pretty *funny* when you *want* to be.
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KT
a little-noticed Goldman Sachs research paper said what other experts have been warning: rising health care costs will outstrip the tax revenues Democrats are counting on to pay for expanding care unless actual delivery reforms are enacted too
What does this mean? What are "actual delivery reforms", at least according to Goldman?
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And where are the links to this "little-noticed" study and to papers in which news users can find out exactly who the "other experts" are and exactly what they "have been warning"?
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This "blog post" by the San Francisco Chronicle's Carolyn Lochhead is a poor piece of work. -
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Who paid for the lab coats that Obama handed out to those so-called "doctors" for his White House photo-op? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/tricky_doctored_photo_kTVWHZ3vEeRQbxCC0TNZHN
I'm sure that Time magazine, the New York Times-Democrat, the Washington Post-Democrat, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, MSDNC, NPR, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, et al., are all feverishly investigating that question. Not!
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10.1
That actually a good question. I'm sure the doctors were only there to pretend to show support for reform because such sweet swag like a free lab coat was involved.
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It should also be noted that this is the same Jindal that as outspoken opponent of the stimulus bill when around to 64 parishes in his state signing big old signing ceremonial checks for millions of dollars paid for because his state got stimulus money.
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http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/58794242.html -
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This is beautiful. Castro News Network is now "fact-checking" Saturday Night Live's portrayal of CNN's adored cult leader. Also, I love how the clueless, useful idiot from CNN alleges that politifact.com is "non-partisan". http://networkedblogs.com/p13726476
Get on the "fact-check" bus, Time magazine, and tell us how SNL has "smeared" Obama!
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12.1
You mean like this??
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http://www.thehopeforamerica.com/play.php?id=2097 -
12.2
Kind of makes you understand why CNN ratings are sinking to new lows. They don't get it. I don't remember them doing any fact checking when SNL was about a Republican.
FOX News hold all 1-13 top ratings of cable network programs. Many of FOX programs have more viewers then CNN, MSNBC, and CNBC combined.
You would think the MSM might get the message. -
12.3
The MSM has already gotten the message. If you want to maximize your profit, minimize your ethics and competence.
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13
Funny how all the Republicans who want health care reform of some kind are not in Congress. As for those Republican amendments: KT, if you have time to read through them you will find a collection of poison pills. The one by Sen Hatch which wanted a special exemption for all states which begin with the letter "U" shows you the level of intelligence and seriousness with which Republican senators approached the amendment process.
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Schwarzenegger just put out a statement, which I deemed important enough to merit a separate post above this one.
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Nice blog post Karen Tumulty. It's a shame about all the obviously biased comments.
But heck, I created a WordPress account for this so I might as well chime in with the Looney Choir.
It's funny that someone mentioned the Democrats have a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentallity on reform when the Republican media darlings, pundits, talking heads, and supporters (hello rusty) all do this precise thing on any commentary, discussion, or articles that don't jive with their spin.
"Hey your blog articles' 3rd point about so-and-so is ironic and I don't like it, your whole article is standard TIME, NBC, CBS and ABC pro-democrat bias!!"Also I get a kick out of people that post links to commentary/partisan sites to debunk or counter someones claimed statements of fact. "You don't understand the bill, go read this pundits detailed hand-holding intepretation of the bill, you can trust him, honest."
My personal bias aside, why is the medium of discussion vitriolic rhetoric and not mutual ground?
Karen you mentioned a consensus forming around two ideas, let's hope they can at least agree on that. What is truly sickening is that even if both sides and the public can find the common ground and word a bill that makes everyone happy the ammendments tacked on would rape it of it's wholesomeness. Bill-time ammendments strike me as the antithesis of truth and reform.
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16
If you really think that the government take over the health care system is about health care, you 100% wrong. Those Senators, Congressmen and President could care less if you live or die. It's all about controling you and me. "Look what I did for you-free or almost free health care, we care for you". Vote for me.
I don't want to live in a country with a health care system(like in England and Canada) where cost is what determines if I live or die. This is not the American way.
My doctor, who is also my long time friend, tell me the thousands and thousands of doctors are going to leave the medical field if Obamacare becomes law. They will not practice medicine under these conditions.
For all you who are for Obamacare and you have a critical medical condition and the health care cost control board says no to your treatment. Just don't call me.
The only thing I can tell if Obamacare passes:DON'T GET SICK!!!!!-
16.1
Oh dear. Poor disinformed sucker.
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[...] joins a growing list of Republicans voicing support for health care [...]
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meanjoegreen59: The only thing I can tell if Obamacare passes:DON'T GET SICK!!!!!
Oh REALLY?
Today in the L.A. Times a story ran regarding a man who was refused a liver transplant by Blue Cross / Anthem Insurance. Despite his imminent death and the sign-off from one of Anthem's own people they said he would have to wait for surgery. He traveled to Indiana, where the wait was much less, and paid $205,000 out of his own pocket. The alternative was dying.
I don't like the reform bill that currently being discussed. BUT, If we don't see some dramatic changes in how healthcare is dealt with WE WILL ALL BE IN SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE.
Oh, that's not a threat, it's a guarantee.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-transplant7-2009oct07,0,6616912.story
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[...] Bob Dole, Senate Majority Leader / Doctor Bill Frist, Bush HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and CA Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (Arnold’s certainly being a hypocrite, but [...]
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[...] There have been some good news from the GOP this week. Time magazine online reported that some members of the GOP do support the health care reform.Former Majority House leader, Bill Frist, said that he would vote for the health care legislation if [...]
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[...] officials, HHS Sec. Tommy Thompson, and FDA commissioner Mark McClellan, all have expressed their support for reform. Granted, none of them have a vote in the U.S. Senate, but this could potentially give [...]
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