Calling Them Out
Ah, John Boehner couldn't wait a day before retailing a whopper about the President's health care plan:
“The President also said that nothing will require you to change your plan. But as we all know, according to CBO and others, millions of Americans could be forced out of their plan. And so it may not require you to change your plan, but if you look at the employer mandate and what it means on employers, it's clear that some number of employers are going to drop their plan, pay their eight percent tax, and their employees will be forced into the government option.
Actually, no. The employees will be forced into health care exchanges, where the public option would--if it passes, and probably won't--be one of several choices they would have. One can only assume that Boehner knows that he's lying here. (Actually, I hope that the exchange idea will be expanded so that midsized employers who already have health care plans can increase their buying power and lower their rates by joining them.)
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1
Can I also point out the complete lack of logic of an employer (who currently faces no penalty for not providing health insurance but still offers health insurance) dropping health insurance once presented with a penalty for not providing health insurance?
If it made economic sense for the employer to offer health insurance when it faced no penalty, why would it stop when it does face a penalty?
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1.1
Its not difficult to figure out
John makes 50K and Johns employer pays 70% of his $10,000 family plan. If Johns employer is allowed to drop coverage and pay 8% instead his cost would be reduced to $4000. Now what will the employer do? Continue to pay $7000 or choose $4000. Millions of Americans will lose their private insurance and most likely those making 100K and under . Goldman Sachs is not going to drop private coverage and pay 8% on a 150K salary because it will cost more but those making under 100K could lose their private health plan depending on the final version of the bill.
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2
Mr. Klein, the speech isn't even 24 hours old and already Mr. Tan Line can't resist continuing the mendacity. So....after reading what you reported, I sent an immediate email to the Whitehouse.gov with your link. I insisted that Mr. Gibbs, or appropriate representative (David A. would be just fine) CALL OUT BOEHNER for spreading these insane lies. And, I would hope everytime we hear or see one purported that we notify the WH and ask them to call the bastards out. Thank you!
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2.1
Somehow the 47 Million Uninsured Americans Democrats have been touting for many years became 30 Million in this weeks Obama speech. Did you all notice that? Somehow 17 million people vanished.. Now who has been claiming the 47 Million Americans was Bogus all along? Not Left Wing Media.. Not Obama. Someone has been lying and it wasn't FOX NEWS.
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2.2
In the speech, President Obama said, "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage." That does not include people who choose not to purchase health insurance for whatever reason. "Can't get" means can't get because of "pre-existing conditions" or prohibitive cost. And yes, Fox News is lying.
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3
It is clear to me that excess use of self-tanners and/or tanning beds causes brain damage.
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3.1
Actually, I think that Boehner's burnt orange-y skin tone is perfectly natural if he's an Oompa Loompa.
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And who doesn't like Oompa Loompas?
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4
So how come you won't call out Pete Hoekstra for lying to you? I can't see what the big difference is.
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5
I *think* their logic is that if the 8% is cheaper, that's the way businesses would go rather than keep offering their employees insurance.
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5.1
But isn't 0% cheaper than even 8%? If it was simply a matter of costs then they wouldn't be offering health insurance right now.
Businesses offer health insurance to attract talent. If the value of that attraction outweighs the cost of offering the health insurance then they will offer the health insurance. If you add a penalty to the decision, you only weigh the equation in favor of adding health care coverage.
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6
I'm curious Joe, do you have the link to Boehner's full statement? Or, were you actually with Boehner when he made this statement?
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One would think if you "quote" someone, you would also provide a link to the actual site that you got the quote from. Hmmmm. Journalism at its finest! -
7
Actually THIS is what Boehner said today:
."“The announcement that Democrats will abandon bipartisanship in order to pass their costly government takeover of health care is nothing new. From day one, the White House has taken a go-it-alone approach on health care. Months ago, Republicans sent the President a letter noting areas of potential common ground on health care reform and requesting a meeting with him to discuss a bipartisan way forward. The Administration rejected our efforts to work together, choosing instead to craft a costly government takeover of health care and to march forward on a partisan basis solely with Democrats in Congress.
“Now, Democratic leaders find themselves all alone in support of a plan that will drive health care costs higher than ever, increase the federal deficit, slash Medicare, and let government bureaucrats make personal medical decisions that only patients and doctors should make. The more the American people learn about this plan, the less they like it. It's time for President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, and congressional Democrats to scrap this costly plan, start over and work with Republicans on reforms that make health care more affordable and accessible for middle-class families and small businesses.”
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http://gopleader.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=141915
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I find it very interesting that a non-sourced quote from Joe Klein with the statement from Joe "Ah, John Boehner couldn't wait a day before retailing a whopper about the President's health care plan". Is it a "WHOPPER" or is it a LIE?
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Or is it what Joe Klein says it is, this?
."“The President also said that nothing will require you to change your plan. But as we all know, according to CBO and others, millions of Americans could be forced out of their plan. And so it may not require you to change your plan, but if you look at the employer mandate and what it means on employers, it's clear that some number of employers are going to drop their plan, pay their eight percent tax, and their employees will be forced into the government option."
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OR is Joe Klein simply making things up? Who can we believe?-
7.1
Oops, I did make a mistake, what I posted as a statement from Boehner was on Aug 19, my bad. But, I would still like to have a souced link none-the-less.
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7.2
"never mind!"
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7.3
Rusty try CSPAN they generally do his press conferences.
Sorry joyomama but Rusty has been much better lately because of Stuart.
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8
Psst, Rusty, huge hint: "G-O-O-G-L-E."
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8.1
Yea slowp, i've "goggled" it from hell and back and still can't find Joe's source.
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8.2
Jesus, Rusty, you must be the most incompetent Googler of all time.
It's on Boehner's own website:
http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=144150
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9
[...] Minority Leader John Boehner held a press conference in which, among other lies, he said Obamacare WILL extend to illegal aliens. This is despite the fact that fact checking [...]
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10
...And bringing this up from a previous thread, Sarah Palin didn't wait long to talk bullsh!t, either.
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10.1
I particularly like this ending from Palin.
."Remember, Mr. President, elected officials work for the people. Forcing a conclusion in order to claim a “victory” is not healthy for our country. We hear you say government isn't always the answer; now hear us -- that's what we've been saying all along."
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Eat that, my liberal friends!! For the People, by the People and for ALL People. Unfortunately for Obama it is a select FEW PEOPLE that he bases his concerns for Healthcare. That, and the Obama "legacy" some 8 months into office. -
10.2
...if Lovely Sarah agrees that govt. is the problem and not the solution, then at least she's no longer part of the problem; she quit.
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10.3
I particularly like this ending from Palin.
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Figures. First sentence is true, second sentence is a lie, third sentence leaves out:
But they also understood that the danger of too much government is matched by the perils of too little...
which either means Palin wasn't paying attention, had reached her quota for the number of words in a sentence that her brain can process, or is lying by omission.
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Eat that, my liberal friends!!
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Figured that rustynutters' faux-reasonableness of late would wear off.
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For the People, by the People and for ALL People.
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If you and Palin are ALL the People, rustynutters, how on earth did McCain lose the Presidency a year ago?
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11
10.1I particularly like this ending from Palin.
."Remember, Mr. President, elected officials work for the people. Forcing a conclusion in order to claim a “victory” is not healthy for our country. We hear you say government isn't always the answer; now hear us -- that's what we've been saying all along."
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Eat that, my liberal friends!! For the People, by the People and for ALL People. Unfortunately for Obama it is a select FEW PEOPLE that he bases his concerns for Healthcare. That, and the Obama "legacy" some 8 months into office.
rustyreturns
September 10, 2009
at 4:17 pmYeah eat that Mitt Romney for implementing a similar model in Massachusetts. You communist.
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11.1
I like this ending for Palin -- the ignorant fool gave John McCain an excuse for the a$$ whippin he was about to receive, then faced with going home and actually having to do her job she quit her day job because it got hard. Now she's auctioning herself off on her beloved ebay. When she ends up on craigslist offering a little more than just dinnerlet's talk.
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12
"For the People, by the People and for ALL People."
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Good lord. This from the people who live their entire political lives stepin' and fetchin' for our corporate overlords and the richest one percent of "the people," always to the detriment of the other 99% of the country. Nuttier than Snickers. -
13
John Boehner has tiny...crispy...onions.
And Sarah the Quiiter is *still* nothing but a narcissistic, confused beauty queen with a major personality disorder.
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14
By all means call out Boehner, but don't forget McCain who reiterated the death panel lies in the same breath that he suggested Joe Wilson apologize. Asked about how he felt about Sarah Palin's remarks, in light of the President's rebuttal of death panels, McCain intimated that the statements were justified because some measures were removed from the bill that gave rise to those concerns as well as some VA manuals, which has been offered as proof for an assertion that health reform wants to kill veterans, despite being debunked long ago.
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15
The most shocking calling out I have heard in a long time was on Fresh Air today. Terry Gross interviewed Max Blumenthal about his new book, Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party.
Story and book excerpt at ...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112683449
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16
Rusty quoting Palin, agreeing with freepers--and here we all thought 'Zech had magical powers, some sort of vulcan mind meld to rehabilitate extremists...
B/C it can't be repeated enough:
"First of all you have to decide if you really want to win. If you just want to spend your time debating hypotheticals and dreaming of how swell things could be while weaving yourself a safety net of emergency qualifiers in case things don't go the way you planned, go get a job at the f@cking Brookings Institution. But if you're gonna go to ideological war, then go to ideological war. And if you are going to fight this war you have to ask yourself 'what would Dick Cheney do?'
Never apologize.
Never admit weakness.
Never concede points.
Never defend.
Always attack.You have to remember that, in the case of the Glenn Beck conservative wing (a group of people who make the Dittoheads look like Quakers), you are dealing with a crazy salad of stupid people (and let's quit excusing them as "low information voters"...they're dumbsh!ts), lunatics, a$sholes, racists, political performance artists, opportunists, and the kind of people who make eugenics seem desirable if not downright necessary.
These are not the people you need or want. You want the mushy middle and the mushy middle loves people who project strength and power. It makes them feel safe. They like being on the winning team. Power and winning intoxicates them. If they write for the Politico, it gives them boners and they'll write anything you want them to. But these people do not respond in the quite the same way to squishy papering over of defeat."
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http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/what-would-dick-cheney-do/-
16.1
Oregon JC:
we all thought 'Zech had magical powers
LOL
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That's totally false. You thought I had nothing better to do, that's all. LOL.
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I'm really, really overworked right now, I've got major deadlines that it looks like I may meet, but I'm off to see my accountant (the Marxist) now about my small business taxes, crazy-too-much-to-do.
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I don't even know if I can get to Ackroyd's Virtually Speaking tonight...
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Anyway, I brought up the fine Americans who got shot in the back by Bolsheviks whilst defending the free world against fascism, and Rustydog figured I was a commie, and got more bent out of shape, as you can read here:
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/10/latest-column-34/comment-page-1/#comment-94685 -
16.2
"my accountant (the Marxist)"
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That is such an interesting construction, one I didn't fully appreciate the first time you mentioned it. When did he embrace Marxism BTW? You said it was due to his interest in economics, I think. I reckon it'd be kinda hard to square one's Marxism with that particular profession. It's easy as a teacher--we're all more or less impoverished/embittered.
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"Anyway, I brought up the fine Americans who got shot in the back by Bolsheviks whilst defending the free world against fascism..."
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Duly noted and appreciated. Given my literary tastes (Orwell, Hemingway), you can imagine that's one of the historical periods that most captivates me. Taught For Whom the Bell Tolls for years in FL, and I still remember one male student who did his major research paper on the AL Brigade. Was a wonderful experience, to see the romanticism he first felt about the conflict transition and blossom, enriched greatly when he saw the complexity of the geopolitics involved, and especially the variants of gray mediating between polarized W-esque good and evil doers that seem to define so much of our so called "history."
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Anyway, you were borderline riffing on Zinn in your comment to RD. -
16.3
Anyway, I brought up the fine Americans who got shot in the back by Bolsheviks whilst defending the free world against fascism, and Rustydog figured I was a commie, and got more bent out of shape, as you can read here:
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That was good times.
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17
It appears Joe is at it again. Either you or you fact checker needs to be fired. I think both. If you want to start calling out folks- start with the President not only did he distort facts he contradicted his "prior facts"
Your quote here looks like a mangled version of what Boehner said in an interview on CNBC today. He said that if employers are faced with paying for health insurance or paying 8% for the public option and in this business environment would opt for that. He said the CBO concurred. I believe it was the Democratic House Whip was standing right next to him and did not dispute it. So is what he said accurate or is she just ill-informed on her own party's bill or is this another example of the fine reporting being doen by the media.
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18
It is a media, fully corrupt and in bed with Obama. Lock, stock and barrel. Joe Klein is nothing but an Obama shill, who takes quotes out of context in order to look like he is Obama's new hatchet man.
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Well Joe, any links yet??-
18.1
Joe does kind of shill for Obama...while he's still popular...
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19
"Either you or you fact checker needs to be fired. I think both."
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"Joe Klein is nothing but an Obama shill, who takes quotes out of context in order to look like he is Obama's new hatchet man."
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The greatest and most amusing delusion of all among the wingnuts has to be the idea that they have any credibility whatsoever (except with each other, of course) with which to call out anyone else. It's a hoot to watch but somewhat disturbing at the same time. -
20
"You have to remember that, in the case of the Glenn Beck conservative wing (a group of people who make the Dittoheads look like Quakers), you are dealing with a crazy salad of stupid people (and let's quit excusing them as "low information voters"...they're dumbsh!ts), lunatics, a$sholes, racists, political performance artists, opportunists, and the kind of people who make eugenics seem desirable if not downright necessary."
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And the truth shall set you free!
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Dealing with communist loving, anti-American foreigners, especially those from the land of the rising sun, who not only tortured our American soldiers in World War II, they point blank shot them in the back of the head just for laughs.
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Was it your Grandfather jcapan who held Hirohito's bowel movements in awe, after he took an imperial crap as the nuclear bomb exploded over Nagaski?
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Yes jcapan, you have SO much to brag about, so very much. You are simply lucky the soldiers in WWII defeated the slime we call Japanese or you would be eating kraut with the Nazis today. Worshipping Hitler as the great savior. Maybe Kim Jong Il will blow you off the map finally, finish the job that should have been completed 60 years ago. I certainly hope he does.-
20.1
Um, Rus, buddy, you realize I'm a gringo, right? American expat living in Japan, about to welcome my first born into the world with a wonderful Japanese woman. Yes, I be miscegenating!
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But, seriously, nothing else you have to say merits engagement. I mean really: "Maybe Kim Jong Il will blow you off the map finally, finish the job that should have been completed 60 years ago. "
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127 million Japanese--should all of them simply be exterminated? -
20.2
Was it your Grandfather jcapan who held Hirohito's bowel movements in awe, after he took an imperial crap as the nuclear bomb exploded over Nagaski?
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What does that even mean? -
20.3
You're a better American than this, Rustydog.
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20.4
Classic kneejerk eliminationism from the rusty mind of rustydog.
I'm looking forward to the day the swat team is called to your compound.
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20.5
SZ @ 20.3: I'll take that bet.
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21
And this little goody just in from Obama's former employer, ACORN is back in the news!!
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http://www.examiner.com/x-6356-Wichita-Independent-Examiner~y2009m9d10-Breitbarts-Big-Government-exposes-Acorn-prostitute-scam-with-video-and-text-from-James-OKeefe
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21.1
The fact that this had to be exposed by an independent film maker and broke on an internet site is just one more example of the entrenched media's kid glove approach to all things politically left.
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My oh my, where is the out-rage from the liberal talking heads? Dare we say so far up Obama's arse that they can't see, hear or smell anymore.
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What do you say Joe? Still "calling people out"? -
21.2
There's the loony, racist rusty we've gotten used to. Nice to have you back.
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21.3
rusty:
Calling them out for what? The porkulus money they received or the Census work this fine upstanding group is expected to do or the money they will receive for the community health work.
They can't be put in jail because they haven't committed anything worse than Geithner or Rangel or Jefferson or Dodd.
Now maybe if they call the President a liar well then we would see action.
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22
I feel as though I can tell how well Obama is doing by how incoherent the right-wingers become on Swampland.
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22.1
LOFL!
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22.2
Then get the Obama a life jacket because he is going under again.
Let's here the excuses now over this:
Did Obama lie before about the number of uninsured that he said was 47 million or last night when he said 30 million. His census bureau said 47 yesterday. That number included illegal immigrants. So then did he lie about illegal immigrants being covered in the HC reform before or last night or both. Or is the census bureau lying or is Democrats in Congress who have thrown the 47 million number around and did they lie about whether illegal immigrants were included in the HC bill.
Or is Obama now going to use the lower number to bring down the budget deficit gap so he is within an Evel Knevil leap of budget neutral. Which is the second biggest lie.
Time for a new strategy: the American people have fogured out the liars are the people who have been calling everyone else liars.
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22.3
There has been a particularly virulent strain of ODS spreading around here. Reading these tea-bags, I see Usurper Mohammad Blackazoid pushing through the public option pretty darn easily
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22.4
"Did Obama lie before about the number of uninsured that he said was 47 million or last night when he said 30 million."
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There are something like 47 million uninsured people in the United States. Some of those people are undocumented aliens. The proposed legislation doesn't cover undocumented aliens. It covers something like 30 million Americans. You're an angry, brainwashed, authoritarian-following idiot.
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You're right, AP, at any moment, I expect them to start tearing their hair out in clumps and fling their own fece...oh, wait.
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23
Maybe Kim Jong Il will blow you off the map finally, finish the job that should have been completed 60 years ago. I certainly hope he does.
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So, s_z, how would you respond to rusty's call for genocide against one of the US's staunch allies, and a nation that surrendered unconditionally to us sixty years ago?
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Is there any point in trying to speak reasonably to such a person?-
23.1
Cliff:
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Is there any point in trying to speak reasonably to such a person?
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What do you suppose Barack Obama would say that question? -
23.2
Let me give it a shot:
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"Yes, because although rusty has clearly indicated a desire to witness the utter annihilation of our close friends and allies over a matter settled more than half a century ago, he is still a member of our proud nation, and as such deserves to be accorded respect regardless of whatever harmful notions he espouses." -
23.3
Barack Obama, September 9th, 2009:
In the meantime, for those Americans who can't get insurance today because they have preexisting medical conditions, we will immediately offer low-cost coverage that will protect you against financial ruin if you become seriously ill. (Applause.) This was a good idea when Senator John McCain proposed it in the campaign, it's a good idea now, and we should all embrace it.
John McCain, April 16th, 2008
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/McCain_unplugged_Bomb_bomb_bomb_bomb_0419.htmlAt a stop on Senator John McCain's "Straight Talk" tour, the 2008 presidential candidate decided to respond to a question with some bars of a song, but it is unlikely that Arizona's Republican senator will be reaching the final rounds of Fox's "American Idol."
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Speaking at Murrells Inlet VFW Hall in South Carolina, McCain was asked when he thought the US Military might "send an air mail message to Tehran."
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"McCain began his answer by changing the words to a popular Beach Boys song," the Georgetown Times reports.
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"'Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran,' he sang to the tune of Barbara Ann," the paper notes. -
23.4
My dear Monsieur Zechman, Obama has already indicated his policy with regard to the rusty-hula-freepie trolls of this world:
.I will not waste time with those who have made the calculation that it's better politics to kill this plan than improve it. I will not stand by while the special interests use the same old tactics to keep things exactly the way they are. If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we will call you out.
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In short - ignore Rusty and realize that he was, is and always will be a pathological liar. You might as well open dialog with a tree-stump. At least that way you'd get less misinformation and more interesting conversational gambits. -
23.5
My most excellent Dr. Pangloss juniusredivivus:
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You mean to say that Rustydog and John McCain differ somehow? -
23.6
Well, in the interests of fairness, I believe that Rusty hasn't yet destroyed quite as many American planes as dear old McManiac. Other than that, it is hard to see a difference. But perhaps your Candide-like optimism can redeem something in both of those unhappy wretches?
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23.7
But perhaps your Candide-like optimism can redeem something in both of those unhappy wretches?
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Yes We Can? -
23.8
I believe that Rusty is the internet troll I tangled with back in 2004, whose retort to every example of how messed up the foray into Iraq had become was to "turn the country into glass". Mr. Rusty, was that you? Do you also remember when you declared we should get rid of every and all laws regulating labor?
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23.9
So...you're saying that even though McCain is a batsh*t crazy neocon, he's had at least one decent idea with health care, and that's why Obama is not totally ignoring him.
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Much like rusty?
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If so, my response would be that there are people with good ideas on health care who also don't want to nuke the world in a burst of xenophobic frenzy, and perhaps we should give these people overwhelmingly more credence.
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There is the whole "broken clock...twice a day" thing, but broken clocks usually don't try to break all the other clocks in the house when you read the time off of them. -
23.10
...there are people with good ideas on health care who also don't want to nuke the world in a burst of xenophobic frenzy, and perhaps we should give these people overwhelmingly more credence.
I don't think that anyone could reasonably argue against that proposition, Cliff.
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An example that proves your point might be that it's much more valuable to listen you than to Kim Jong-Il --unless we're talking fashion. -
23.11
Damn, man, I may not be the most fashionable cat on the block but you didn't have to go that far.
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24
So many different handles. Same style used--so many many aliases. ONE person, desperate-- commenting and responding to himself. Liberal one minute, next minute banal, and then suddenly a raving conservative “spokesperson”. How pathetic.
Anyway, I also want to point out a little matter to Mr. Klein. You wrote that you hope Boehner knows he is lying. Hmmmm...since when did truth matter to the Republican attack machine in this debate ?
It has been evident from the onset of the Healthcare reform proposal that the Republican tack was lies, deceit and confusion. It will not change.
As I indicated in a previous comment, the Anti-Obama folks are doing their job—doing everything and anything to kill the plan-- one can only hope that the Obama folks are doing theirs as well-doing everything and anything to get it passed!
LM
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25
"The employees will be forced into health care exchanges, where the public option would--if it passes, and probably won't--be one of several choices they would have."
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I see Klein is still calling Obama a liar, because last night he said the public option was part of his plan, unless Obama is lying.-
25.1
The best laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy! -
25.2
If the spineless moderates will have to slit their throats, if a public option comes into being, what is their alternative that is something better. By better, I assume it will be something both liberals and moderates agree to, not just what the whiny moderates want.
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