Glenn Greenwald
Twice in the past month, my private communications have been splashed about the internet. That such a thing would happen is unfortunate, and dishonorable, but sadly inevitable, I suppose. I ignored the first case, in which a rather pathetic woman acolyte of Greenwald's published a hyperbolic account of a conversation I had with her at a beach picnic on Cape Cod. Now, Greenwald himself has published private emails of mine that were part of a conversation taking place on a list-serve. In one of those emails, I say that Greenwald "cares not a whit for America's national security."
I'd like to quote here from a subsequent email on that thread, which Greenwald hasn't published, in which I explain why I have such strong feelings about Greenwald:
For the past several years, Greenwald has conducted a persistent, malicious campaign to distort who I am and where I stand. He is a mean-spirited, graceless bully. During that time, I have never seen him write a positive sentence about the US military, which has transformed itself dramatically for the better since Rumsfeld's departure (indeed, he ridiculed me when I reported that the situation in Anbar Province was turning around in 2007). I have never seen him acknowledge that the work of the clandestine service—performed disgracefully by the CIA during the early Bush years—is an absolute necessity in a world where terrorists have the capability to attack us at any time, in almost any place. Nor have I seen [him] acknowledge that such a threat exists, nor make a single positive suggestion about how to confront that threat in ways that might conform to his views. Therefore, I have seen no evidence that he cares one whit about the national security of the United States. It is not hyperbole, it is a fact.
I am not a religious reader of Greenwald--he does go on, and on--and it's possible that I missed extensive posts in which he praises the Armed Forces or makes positive suggestions about how to track possible communications between terrorists abroad and their confederates here. But I sort of doubt that. What I have seen from him, ad nauseum, are intemperate attacks in which he questions the character of--no, it's worse than that: he slimes--anyone who has the temerity to disagree with him.
I agree with Greenwald on some things, and appreciate his insights on others. But he is a thoroughly dishonorable person--as he proved by releasing my private emails--and, when it comes to his oft-trumpeted belief in the right to privacy, a stone hypocrite as well.
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1
Maybe Joe Klein should get out of journalism. It's mean and nasty and no one would miss him anyway.
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1.1
"I am not a religious reader of Greenwald--he does go on, and on..."
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Plus, there's all that reading and research and, like, stuff, and some of it is long and detailed. Who has all that time between cocktail parties?
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I'm coining the phrase 'twitter journalist' for guys like Joe who find it too time consuming to be bothered with details. -
1.2
Somebody call the WHAM BA LANCEEEEEEEEEE!
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I mean seriously Joke, you published an email just the other day of a private citizen with their email address and all and YOU are calling Glenn dishonest?
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Dude get a frikkin life or at least some tough skin. You come off sounding like a whiny lil beyatch every five minutes responding to what has been said to you or about you on the intertubes. If being criticized is too much for you why don't you pack it in and go do something else? Out of everything going on in the world today you choose trying to get in a public pissing match as your subject to write on here at Swampland. I assume you must not have any editors for your posts but if you do they should all be fired for allowing you to try to act like a 5 year old using their platform.
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And it shows how sh*tty of a journalist that you are that you admit you don't read Glenn much but then go on to make a blanket statement about what he has said or not said about the CIA or any other national security forces. Ass hole is too nice of a term for the kind of person who pulls that kind of blatantly dishonest bullsh*t. It doesn't make you some kind of patriot to suck off the CIA every time you get. As a matter of fact it makes you quite the opposite Joke, you would think the Iraq War would have taught you that.
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One more thing, its hasn't escaped anybody that you did not refute anything the "pathetic woman acolyte" said about your conversation. Pretty telling, no? -
1.3
As for journalism or professional inquiry, how did Klein not know or ask about Aimai's knowledge of I.F. Stone?
Aimai is Stone's granddaughter.
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1.4
what sgwhiteinfla said.
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Furthermore, im applying for a patent on the term 'twitter journalist'. lol -
1.5
This is awesome. So, Klein posts to his blog and his readers shred him? What a concept. It's like performance art. Rock on Joe. Bring on da stupid, bring on da funk.
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1.6
Saying Joe Klein should get out of journalism is like saying penguins should get out of the Sahara.
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2
I don't know about other Swampland denizens, but I'm getting pretty tired of posting that uses this blog to advance inter-blog personality issues. It assumes everyone who reads Swampland posts is aware of what goes up on other blogs (not the case, btw) and it assumes ad hominem attacks are useful to advance policy discussions.
Sliming back tends to vitiate complaints about having ben slimed. Enough already!
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2.1
Yes, yes… "having been slimed." The Preview function is there for a reason.
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3
"...a rather pathetic woman acolyte of Greenwald's..."
"...intemperate attacks in which he questions the character of--no, it's worse than that: he slimes--anyone who has the temerity to disagree with him."
POL (puking out loud).
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3.1
"...intemperate attacks in which he questions the character of--no, it's worse than that: he slimes--anyone who won't admit their own mistakes."
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There. I fixed it.
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4
From: Fake Sarah Palin
To: Real Joe KleinJoe,
Leaked emails, such as, you two? Welcome to my world. I now all about having my emails leaked to the liberal media. Emails? Don't talk about emails. Are you kidding me? Emails? I'm just hoping I like can start up my new twitter thingy, but found out just that I can only use 140 carrot tours, NOT 140 pages. No wonder the tweets kept getting cut of. Also. It must be the fault of those media starlets. Starlets? Don't talk about starlets. Are you kidding me? Starlets? I just want to win the WH and then smoke salmon and shoot wolves all day. Vote for me in 2012! And please donate to SarahPac[tm]. Sweet kisses.Sarah
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5
So... you're upset because Greenwald found out about, and publicized, the rude things you were saying behind his back?
That's pretty petty of you, Joe.
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5.1
So... you're upset because Greenwald found out about, and publicized, the rude things you were saying behind his back?
That's pretty petty of you, Joe.
darius3
August 31, 2009
at 2:53 pmMy thoughts exactly Darius 3.
Instead of just making a fool of himself in front of 100 or so journalists, with this column, Klein has now made a fool of himself in front of the rest of us, as well. Mr. Greenwald has more integrity in his little pinkie than Klein has in his whole body. We all know that, even the Greenwald haters. What a pity for Klein that he is so clueless about it.
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6
I think this was a dumb post Joe. You need a thicker skin. Now, there will be a counter post by Greenwald, links throughout the blogosphere. The vast majority of people don't know about the quarrel.
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Greenwald, who has faults of his own, has genuinely nailed you a few times for sloppy reporting, People are going to believe that this is about that, rather than any excesses Glenn has committed.
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The stuff about hating the troops was petty as well. Even if true, it really isn't provable. Greenwald will now document every time in the last 20 years he has praised members of the military with footnotes and lengthy updates, again making you look petty about this.-
6.1
Oh for the days when a flame war was just a couple of doofuses flogging their petty grievances, and only other doofuses were aware of it.
Although in this case, the former is still true. -
6.2
Joe still doesn't understand the Streisand Effect.
This post just reinforces everything that Greenwald has been saying about him, and that we all knew already, anyway.
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Joe Kline is a vain, petty, supercilious fool personally, and a superficial, credulous and lazy.stenographer of a reporter professionally.
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The more Joe strikes out blindly against those who reveal his faults, the more he will demonstrate them for all to see.
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Joe, if you will just go about doing your job of journalism thoroughly and thoughtfully for a change, and ignore the criticism, you will find the criticism fading away, as the reason to criticize fades away.
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makes positive suggestions about how to track possible communications between terrorists abroad and their confederates here
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It's called getting a FISA warrant. and it's stunningly easy to do.
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We can only wonder why you don;t know that. Maybe it's the quality of your sources....... -
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Joe-This is a fight best not joined. By you. Especially when you seem to advance here that it is in a journalist's job description to praise the military. Since when did that enter a professional journalist's jobj description? Does Glenn not wear enough military flair for you? The military has its own public affairs dept to let everyone know what good work they are do.
One positive suggestion I have seen Glenn put forth to track communications is for the United States to follow its own laws and hold its leaders accountable when they. But we all know you have serious issues when our dear Rulers are held accountable.
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This is really turning into a blog that only spooge or rustytheclown could love.
I'm beginning to "care not a whit" (now I'll take a pinch of snuff) for Swampland.
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I knew I should have just looked away.
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I guess Joe needed to reach his page hits quota today.
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Joe, Glenn is a lawyer. He writes predominantly about media criticism and legal issues. It wouldn't make sense for him to be praising Gates's reforms; it's not his thing.
It's also rather chilling that "praising the military" is a prerequisite to being taken seriously. That doesn't seem to be what being a journalist is all about. I've never seen him say anything intemperate or untoward or inappropriate about the military; do you have any examples to support your contention?
Frankly, your "he is criticizing what the military is doing, so he therefore hates the military and doesn't care about national security" argument strikes me as downright Cheneyesque.
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12.1
... and come to think of it, I'm not sure he has criticized what the military is doing-- he focuses his criticism on political decision-makers. Not that criticizing the military is inherently bad or anti-national security, I just don't think that's really his thing.
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13
Joe,
To be fair, you can't post something to a listserv and then call it a private email. Listserv posting are basically public and I know that you, as a journalist wouldn't have any problem with sourcing items to emails that somebody posted in such a manner (nor should you).
As for the substance of your take on Greenwald -- what if he just disagrees with you (as I do) about the magnitude of the threats that America faces and about the extent to which civil liberties need to be curtailed or CIA powers need to be expanded. I don't think it's right to say that he doesn't care a whit about security. Maybe some of us think you care too much about it and not enough about other worthy topics?
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13.1
Exactly, "private email" and "posted on a listserve" is a blatant and obvious contradiction.
"As for Greenwald, he knows little about politics, less about journalism and cares not a whit about the national security of the United States. I find the Limbaugh-like, knee-jerk devotion of his flock depressing."
I read Glenn and I can tell you, I take exception to each and every derogatory metaphor Joe invoked about Glenn's readers, "Limbaugh-like, knee-jerk devotion of his flock depressing." But what I find most curious is that Joe find Glenn's readers' devotion depressing. I think Joe is jealous.
Why, if Joe was having a fight with Glenn, did he find it necessary to insult Glenn's readers?
Joe deserves credit for admitting he was wrong about the Iraq war but he has yet to examine why he got it so wrong or why he will not get it wrong the next time.
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I find it fascinating that Joe has seen fit to get the links to Glenn documents removed (presumably by contacting Media Matters and kvetching) but feels absolutely OK with publishing his own version with the context removed.
He seems pretty adept at this internet thingy after all....
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15
"Twice in the past month, my private communications have been splashed about the internet."
Uh, didn't Joe Klein post someone's mean e-mail to him- complete with first and last name- right here at Swampland a couple of weeks ago?
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15.1
touche'
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here are the offending docs:
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http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/ -
15.2
Thanks PD-I had zero luck with Swampland's "Search this blog" feature.
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16
Joe Klein:
I have seen no evidence that he cares one whit about the national security of the United States.
Spoken like Dick Cheney.
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Why should Greenwald need to protest his national security bona fides (proxy for his patriotism, let's face it) as if he were a centrist politician running for national office being advised by you and Shrum, Joe Klein?
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That Kristol, Krauthammer and the rest of the rightists --and you and Ignatius and the rest of the centrists-- will make political hay out of such perceived lack of public demonstration is exactly what's wrong with the current politics of national security in the Beltway.
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It's also what got Democrats to vote us into invading Iraq, and what got you to mouth squeamish support that invasion on Meet The Press, Joe Klein.
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This is very, very disappointing, but hardly unpredictable.
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Greenwald should be praised for not shouting his national security faith from the rooftops (and therefore not planting the debate firmly in the neo-conservatives' desired frame), not attacked from the right with Coulter-esque slurs --but that's just like centrists to take such advantage where they feel they can, isn't it, Joe Klein?-
16.1
Sorry, that should read "what got you to mouth squeamish support forthat invasion on Meet The Press".
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Joe Klein, perhaps a better use of your time would be to figure out why there is so much animosity between you and Greenwald? While I can admit that some on the left can be a bit extreme in their views about the military, and civil liberties can you also admit that the centrists' tendency to marginalize their voices might have something to do with the anger and so-called mean spiritedness that you refer to? The msm has focused on stenography and scorekeeping ad nauseum and you people don't seem to listen to our complaints, yet you want us to listen to your pet peeves and what do you do -- you engage in a personal battle with Greenwald, that we could care less about and your chief weapons are stenography and score keeping, the very things we hate and you expected us to what? side with you, understand?
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18
Maybe someone needs to buy Joe and Glenn a beer and hold a photo-op. But who will do this? Anna Wintour? Maureen Dowd?
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18.1
Anna Wintour hoisting a cold one – a mental image for the ages.
Thanks, decon.
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**During that time, I have never seen him write a positive sentence about the US military,**
Ah, he hates the troops. And probably baseball, apple pie, and his mother. I bet he doesn't put his hand over his heart during the national anthem. When did he stop beating his partner? And has anyone seen his birth certificate?
What a cheesy bit of milquetoast McCarthyism. It's hard to take this post seriously in light of that nonsense. The pathetic use of this strawman would be unworthy of the worst sort of GOP backbencher. This is the Joe Klein who threw a (public) hissyfit at Jacob Weisberg for guessing (correctly) that Joe Klein was the author of Primary Colors, leading to what is, apparently, the ultimate Kleinian indictment: "You are gaining a reputation as a fellow unworthy of a dinner invitation!"
Joe, maybe some friendly editor or colleague could screen your posts for elements of self-parodic self-pity before you hit publish. You're better than this, when your massive ego and paper-thin skin don't get in your way.
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19.1
Primary Colors. I think Joe thought that him being a journalist and all he could published private books that the rest of the press were supposed to ignore that he authored.
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Mr. Klein, Over the years, I've gone a back and forth in my opinion of you as a journalist, but this this pretty much seals it.
I hadn't given a moment's thought about your character, until now, when you decided to attack someone by questioning his support for the military. You sound like a second rate Bircher at the height of the cold way. You have no evidence Greenwald hates the military.
Sure, Greenwald has been tough on you, but you deserve it when you claim you did not cheerlead for the war when, in fact, you did. He had the quotes and the videotape to prove it.
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20.1
Well put, genjcchristian. I can't speak to Klein's character but it's clear that his intellect is seriously corrupted by a seething hatred of liberals, a deep need for the acceptance of authority figures and a typical inside-the-beltway preoccupation with the political, to the grotesque exclusion of everything that truly matters.
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20.2
Excellent to see your commentary here, General.
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...For those of you who are unaware, this is General JC Christian, Patriot's fine blog. -
20.3
That would good first step for two liberals in a debate, grant each other respect and grabt each other the presumption of integrity. Then battle it out on the merit,
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I doubt Glenn will make notice of this bit of venting by Joe, it really isn't worth his time. Nor was it worth Joe's time, unless it saves him a trip to his therapist.
I appreciated the comment above about posts on list serves. The idea that they aren't "public" as soon as you hit the send key is just silly, as silly as Joe's pal Hoekstra was when he twittered his plans for the day on a trip to Iraq, unaware that "the twitters" pass through "a series of tubes" out to the big wide world.
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22
What do Joe Klein and Dick Cheney have in common?
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The more they defend their position, the less defensible it becomes. Sometimes silence IS the correct response. -
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Did I miss Joe Klein's heroic service in uniform? Did I miss the moment when he denounced an illegal war? Did I miss the moment when he exposed the lies of Pete Hoekstra?
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Too right, I did.
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Primary Colors, Joe. -
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And let's not forget this bit of Joe Klein Bush worship. http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,1205323,00.html
My God, what a hack! So easily parodied. http://www.myspace.com/jokeline
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heh heh Joe - now you've gotten yourself Greenwalded and Kossed !!! The regulars of Kos are about to invade your little column here
...and dont even mention ditching the public option in the next couple of days - the purity brigade will "lynch" you !!
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