How Do You Stop Rape?

I see that textee finds rape to be a good chance to score partisan points, rather than approaching the issue like an adult.

“What does Mr Clinton think, through the mouth of Mrs Clinton?”

I am informed that if properly translated, the question would be as follows:
" Can you tell us the official policy of (Mr. Obama's administration) regarding ... "

Now, that doesn't sound that bad, does it?

{Now you can understand the untenable position in which those Africans find themselves when they have to communicate and negotiate in foreign languages such as English, Portuguese, Italian, French, ..
I still propose that AMERICAN English MUST be the official/commercial language of that foreign France.}

--off topic
Repression: Barbarism and the Garb Police:
Women must show more skin - swim naked even!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_re_eu/eu_france_burquini_banned

{They may as well declare themselves a nudist republic ..}

cfukara, the only thing that matters is the translation Hillary Clinton got. She answered the question as it was presented. I don't think the student intended offense, but the Sec of State can't be expected to do the translation herself. The story is: question mangled in translation. NOT "Hillary Clinton, irrational hysteric".

I've had to communicate in Swahili, Russian, and French. I'm cut slack on it because I clearly am not fluent. Clinton was relying on a professional translator. There's just no comparison.

" .. the only thing that matters is the translation Hillary Clinton got. She answered the question as it was presented. .."

An approach that is unbecoming of a secretary of state, a diplomat, who should be aware of difference in cultures and how concepts may be expressed differently in a sentence and in a formal setting.

She knows that meaning does get lost in direct rendition from one language to another.

At best she could have asked for clarification instead of assuming enemy action.

Take this example:
She has friends that are not American, right?
Now if a translator from the German language refers to a "male" table (since objects in that language have a gender attached), then is she going to be nasty about it?

Plausible explanation: She was fatigued and testy (like all of us would be) after days on the road that featured a few nights of vigorous shake-a-leg in Kenya.

cfukara, that's just foolish. Diplomats are not appointed to assume the most charitable read of any given interpretation, especially when there's a professional interpreter present. CH pauses and waits to see if someone's going to correct the translation, no one does, and she then administers a firm but unmistakable smackdown.
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This also isn't an innocent misplacement of a word or a gendered pronoun. The translation was pretty clear: speak on behalf of President Clinton. The problem is a fully-replaced PERSON, Pres Clinton for Pres Obama -- that is not a typical translation error. There's no international incident here, just puffed-up Clinton saga from the networks, per usual.
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And frankly, Secs of State should show some fire every now and again. Diplomats aren't doormats.

" .. cfukara, that's just foolish. .."

Do want us to assume that YOU are not?

Here we go again, with the sage Yodaisms.
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You've thrown enough chaff into this conversation to make it clear that you either don't understand the role of a diplomat, or have no intention of admitting Hillary Clinton might have a point. Your loss.

There is absolutely no equivalence between the isolated incidents of US military personnel in Iraq/Afghanistan and the cultural phenomenon within Africa that allows utter complacency amidst systemic rape campaigns. Child armies. Rape as a weapon. Ethnic/tribal genocide. These are very real social ills that scream for some form of action. While the atrocities carried out on occasion by members of the US military are deplorable and sickening, they pale in number to the societal issues plaguing Africa.

Exile ... your response and 'talking points' sound potent - and as poorly-poised for discourse as the vacuous outbursts that we get from "deathers".

cfukara-
Yea, yea, yea. Let's cut through the bullsh*t rhetoric and pin your position down nice and neatly. Are you suggesting that the US military in Iraq/Afghanistan is raping at higher volumes than is currently occurring throughout Africa? If so, than my above comment is perfectly pertinent and accurate. If your assertion was otherwise, than I misinterpreted and my comment was merely a superfluous interjection.
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Now I am in no way opposed to your general views on American excess in war. I agree that the callous disregard for the lives of civilians while we preach to the word about moral codes, ethical warfare, humanity, ect is hypocritical duplicity. On this we agree. But unless you are using the term "rape" loosely to include the raping of an entire country, by way of rampant and indiscriminate bombing campaigns, shoot-to-kill orders, invasive search and destroy missions, and myriad other metaphorical 'rapes' of the indigenous psyche, then you cannot equate the US military conduct with that of the Congolese situation. In the strict sense of the word, that is sexual violence, I must disagree with what I perceive to be your assertion that Clinton is devoid of integrity in her statements on rape in the Congo due to the conduct of a few military anomalies in Iraq/Afghanistan.

I've got to go with you on this one Neo. Clearly cfkura has a problem with the military period. I'd prefer if would reserve his venom for rants about excessive defense budgets or something, rather than make blanket attacks about military personnel -- please don't think for a second this is the way everyone on the left view are brave military personnel or should I just say our sons and daughters.

Dee
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Generally, I tend to enjoy cfukara's perspectives and his relentless tendency to confront duplicitous governmental agendas. However, at times, I feel he takes the rhetoric too far, holding our nation's men and women of the military accountable for the strategies and tactics of the leadership with which he adamantly disagrees. It may well be that his windy speech against American rapes in the Middle East is but a metaphor for an aggressive occupation that is disrupting the lives of average Iraqi and Afghan civilians. However, if he is seriously contending that there is wholesale sexual abuse at the hands of the American military, then he is simply wrong. I'm awaiting his clarification.

" rape ... due to the conduct of a few military anomalies in Iraq/Afghanistan. .."

I cannot pretend to emphathize fully and comprehend the depth of emotion, thoughts in those victims I saw arriving at the crisis center for victims of rape. Does it matter whether one's rape is an anomaly? Does it matter whether it is inflicted by the military in Iraq/Afghanistan, or a date/acquaintance in USA, or a sibling/stepfather in UK, or the armed thugs in the Congo?

I don't doubt that, as an observer, you believe that if YOU were a victim thus raped in Iraq/Afghanistan you would smile, and for the rest of your life, bear the 'anomaly' with goodwill toward the perpetrator for the rest of your violated life.

But if you are a perpetrator, you'd fervently hope that you didn't do it to an American. Else there will be no repose for you for the rest of your life.

Congo has been at war for generations. You may similarly contrive to be fair and propose that rape in the Congo is " .. due to the conduct of a few military anomalies .."

Is sexism, bias and a predisposition, possibly racist in nature, colouring your interpretation of the dire reality regarding rape in USA, Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam ...

{ We know a little about bias and discrimination in USA, don't we?}

The war in the Congo has consumed generations - with over a million slaughtered in less than a decade.
{As an aside, you may wonder why you don't see on your TeeVee the bleeding heart 'philanthropists' and pious Hollywood types trekking to the Congo and acting all so touched about the plight of humanity. Congo and its immense wealth IS in OURS.}
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" .. I've got to go with you on this one Neo. Clearly cfkura has a problem with .."
Go whichever way.
Indeed the "deathers" would declare that those who want a public option "clearly" have a problem ...
Should we presume that those who may not perceive a situation your way don't perceive it "clearly"?
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Back to the topic of rapes in USA vs Africa and Clinton's sermon-from-the-pedestal to the Africans ..
Shouldn't she remove the beam in her eye, so to speak, before she lambast others for the sprck of dust in theirs?
..

Should we presume that those who may not perceive a situation your way don't perceive it "clearly"?
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And should we presume that those who may not perceive a situation in your way, cfukara, have perceptions tainted by "sexism, bias and a predisposition, possibly racist in nature...?"
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To return to the substance of this issue, my sole point, if you look back and thoughtfully read what I wrote, is simply that it is an egregious exaggeration to suggest that there is a wholesale sexual abuse campaign being waged by the United States military personnel in Iraq/Afghanistan. I am not attempting to belittle, reject, or overlook the painful, incomprehensible suffering of the victims of those who have been sexually wronged by our military. But, cfukara, there is indeed a vast difference between simply ignoring the existence of wrongs and pointing out that said wrongs are not as rampant as you would suggest. I in no way am attempting to provide cover for the atrocities that have occurred, and certainly my view is not that non-Americans are fair-game for whatever abuse we may indulge in. We are all fellow humans and I have the utmost respect for the oppressed. Perhaps you've missed my commentary on the plight of the Palestinians. Although I know you have not as the two of us have discussed our views on this matter. There is no need to paint a nasty caricature of my motives, i.e. sexist, racist, nationalist, simply because I feel you have made an exaggeration.

I hate to say this, but there is an awful lot of evidence for rape by US military forces, not simply in Iraq, but in every area where they are stationed. There have been numerous cases in Japan and Korea, to name only two. Nor is it the case that the US military limits itself to raping foreigners. Things were made worse in Iraq by the presence of Blackwater mercenaries, many of whom were deliberately chosen by Eric Prince for their racist and fundamentalist Christian attitudes. Furthermore, American women in the armed forces have experienced numerous rapes, and frequent harassment - by their fellow soldiers. Yes, the systematic and murderous rapes by armed groups in Africa are worse, but that doesn't make the record of the US military anything but shameful in this area. If you want a place to start thinking about this issue:
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http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/web/la-oew-marshall30jan30,0,2956277.story

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/waroniraq/140204/why_is_it_different_when_americans_rape/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/02/AR2006070200673_pf.html

Without going into 'deather'-like idiotic exchange in disregard of available data, I would add what I heard in a meeting: "Life is life-altering experience for each victim, silently-borne individually and communally shared, for the kid, man or woman impacted."

Is this meant to be a zen statement? Said at "a meeting"? I'm really not sure what you mean to get at, here.

I know it's more entertaining to approach discussions as free-verse poetry slams, but not as illuminating.

Correction:
"Rape is life-altering experience ...."

And here you encounter a fine example of the difficulties of speaking to cfukara.
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If your first response after reading that was, "wha?" then you are in the majority.

" ...Cfukara, that is unbelievably stupid. .."
Thanks.
Indeed, the deathers and the birthers don't have respect for their opponents.

The topic was on the visit of USA's Clinton in Africa - and her holier-than-thou sermon-on-a-pedestal to those Third World people (of the fabulously wealthy Africa that is critical to the well-being and comfort of Americans who denigrate them).
I posted about Africa vis-a-vis USA of the holier-than-thou Clinton. Listening to her pious holiness, one would be led to think that rape is edified in African mythology.

Would you rather engage in a comparative discussion of the African countries only? Would you be on a firmer ground then?http://allafrica.com/

There may be some assumptions here: Does rape hurt more if the victim is African? Or is the perpetrator more cursed if African?

So, cfukara, you're just choosing to totally ignore the fact that there are virtually NO support services available to rape victims in Congo: not medical, not cultural, not political, not via the law. Or that rape in Congo is being freely used as a tool of war, and administered by gangs.
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I'm a woman in the US and I'm cool with US diplomats focusing on rape in Congo. I don't feel it's at my expense, and I think that any effort to wipe out this sort of vicious misogyny is a step in the right direction, globally, for all women.

" .. I'm a woman in the US and I'm cool with US diplomats focusing on rape in Congo. ..."

For the discussion online with regard to the rape, it really doesn't matter whether you are a woman (which you may NOT be) or you live in USA (which may not be true).
{Did you follow the recent "wise Latina" saga in USA - and the discomfort felt by some over the "Latina" identifier? If not read about it online.}

If you were a victime of rape, would you frame your statement in the same manner? NO.
The statement may as well read:
"I'm a woman in the US, I have never been raped and I'm cool with US diplomats focusing on rape in other countries and not rape in the USA."

The incidence of rape in the USA - the leading proponent of democracy, rule of law, rights for women and gentler living - is appalling.
The number of US kids, women and families that have been touched by rape and its lingering effects in numbing.

Rape is a life-altering experience and I am glad that you have not fallen victim - so far.

cfukara, I assure you I am both female and a US-residing US citizen.
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The rest of your post I will not be responding to, because you are wrong in your assumptions. After flinging around US rape statistics in other posts, you should know better than mouthing off about someone else's experience. And my experience makes me feel MORE for women in Congo, who have no access to the supports I had.
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But as I said, we're through with this conversation. You don't know what you're talking about.

" .. And my experience makes me feel MORE for women ... who have no access to the supports I had. .."

! (perish the thought) !

Rape is no less heinous if the victim has "support".
So, go ahead and feel for the millions upon millions of the victims of rape in USA.

{Your selective lack of empathy casts doubt upon your claim to be a member of the sisterhood.}

Rape touches the victim in a very personal way. It is an assault. It is life-altering. It is degrading. It is an act of terror. And terror/terrorism in the USA is no less traumatizing than terror/terrorism in the Congo.

And the presence of "support" does not alter the fact and the long-term reality. The emphasis is on achieving an environment whereby rape does not happen.
Zero tolerance too.

{We pursue terrorists, would-be terrorists and their sympathizers half-way around the world - and launch intense, focused, well-funded campaign of psyche warfare - to ensure that terrorist will not harm us again. Once we stop burying our collective, sexist heads in the sand and confront the magnitude and heinous nature of rape in USA, then perhaps we will declare war on the terror of rape and the terrorist who commit it.}

" .. You don't know what you're talking about. .."

You have the opportunity to parade your knowledge.
So far, your show is disappointing - impotent teaser.

BBC?
Don't you want to refer more credible sources - other than official propaganda from a mouthpiece propped up by an interested imperial government?
Next you will be quoting VOA ...

In Vietnam we saw the emergence of unwanted albinos as the aftermath of the Vietnam war. So-will-it-be/it-is in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Some may interject, "Good for us, we are spreading our good genes."
What would the raped women say? And what would be the view of the children born violently? Does it matter?

And why don't we want then to be as well-armed as we are? After all, the better genes will still prevail in a contest of well-matched combatants. ...
{Faithless hypocrites.}

Who might these people be who condone rape as a form of "spreading our good genes?"

" .. Cfukara, are you sure you want to end up playing the same point-scoring game as textee? .."

"end up"? Is that a parting threat from a vanquished debater?

You do the game-playing and the point- scoring, and we will do the discussions and freewheeling exploration of viewpoints - liberated from the urge to pigeon-hole them into castes and camps and isms.

And anonymous freedom from those constraints is exhilarating .. somewhat { }

So in sum, cfukara, you don't care that these woman were raped, it's just a chance for you to experience some cheap thrills and liberate your perspective. As for your petty point-scoring, I'd say you were actually worse than textee, which is a sad and nasty place to be. What's your next act - a lip-smacking exploration of child pornography? A genocide reenactment theme park?

" .. More than 1 in 3 women in USA .."

How many millions is that - if you are keeping track?

" .. More than 1 in 3 women in USA .."
How many millions is that - if you are keeping track?

{Now, for those who took umbrage at my earlier assertions on comparative prevalence of incidents of rape in USA/UK and the African countries, check on the population sizes of various African countries ... Then pledge to be a lot more diligent in the future.}

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Associated Press, STAMFORD, Conn. (USA), 08/13/09 — A Connecticut hotel, Stamford Marriott Hotel & Spa, where a woman was raped at gunpoint in front of her children says the victim was careless and negligent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/rape-victim-was-careless-_n_258802.html
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Wanted: More wise judges and wise prosecutors and wise police and, among them, wise survivors of rape.

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In matters of sexism, rape and women, I would hope that a wise woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a man who hasn't lived that life and never been raped.
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" .. rape is an anti-social act .."

You may classify it as abnormal behaviour.

And cutting off the offending/offensive member is another good start.
[It IS a biblically-correct thing to do. It works superbly in places where that is practiced. Even the philandering Bill Clintons would be a lot more circumspect in such an environment. And the females in this swamp would probably be all for it.]

The thing about rape, cfukara, is that it is often reported well-after the fact, in which case it is difficult to prove. Are we to start castrating anyone accused of rape? What of the date-rape cases, whereby a sympathetic jury buys into the sobbing tale of violation and "I said no!" In this case, juries might neglect the alcohol induced haze the couple was in at the time, convicting a man of rape whose sole crime was taking the wrong girl home, one who later regretted the night? Rape is entirely too fuzzy to become a rigid statistic and allegations are entirely too suspect to enact a castration campaign...

" .. Rape is entirely too fuzzy .. "
The same has been said of many cases of murder.
It may take years, even decades. That does not stop us from bringing the cases to a just closure for the victims' families - even in cases without a body.

What is the basis of your shrillness in matters of rape?

" .. to enact a castration campaign... "
Who mentioned "castration"?
Junior, does "cutting off the .. member" uniquely refer to "castration"? Can it also refer to "banishment from society"?

Correction:
"Yet we bring many cases to a just closure .."
{The twaddle for Exile on this blog topic suggests that overt and covert sexism in our society and judicial system is to be considered under item 5 in #12 of cfukara August 13, 2009 at 1:54 am }

Yes, I am sexist, just as you and I are both "anti-Semitic," whatever that may mean. Nice tactics, cfukara.

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Associated Press, STAMFORD, Conn. (USA), 08/13/09 — A Connecticut hotel, Stamford Marriott Hotel & Spa, where a woman was raped at gunpoint in front of her children says the victim was careless and negligent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/rape-victim-was-careless-_n_258802.html
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Wanted: More wise judges and wise prosecutors and wise police and, among them, wise survivors of rape.

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In matters of sexism, rape and women, I would hope that a wise woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a man who hasn't lived that life whereby rape is a real and present danger.
--

Sorry.
Excuse the double entry.

" .. A major factor that you seem to be lacking in your commentary .."

What do you lack in YOUR commentary, junior?