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	<title>Comments on: A Big Setback for Health Reform?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/</link>
	<description>A blog about politics.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:23:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Hillary Is 44 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Six Months Of Obama Boobery</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81664</link>
		<dc:creator>Hillary Is 44 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Six Months Of Obama Boobery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81664</guid>
		<description>[...] Obama lover Karen Tumulty at Time magazine assesses the damage when the truth is actually told and not suppressed or ignored: Read this quote, from Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, testifying before the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Obama lover Karen Tumulty at Time magazine assesses the damage when the truth is actually told and not suppressed or ignored: Read this quote, from Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, testifying before the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 53_3</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81355</link>
		<dc:creator>53_3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81355</guid>
		<description>I need to clarify my statement a bit:

1.  This model&#039;s inputs are limited to this bill only, and the outputs are likely only those under the purview of the CBO.  This isn&#039;t a real economic model.

2.  There is no standing models that exist for the current system, with all outputs considered

3.  There is no model, as described above, for properly evaluating whether an alternate model is as good as, better than, or worse than, any other model.

We will get &lt;i&gt;nowhere&lt;/i&gt; if we don&#039;t benchmark!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need to clarify my statement a bit:</p>
<p>1.  This model's inputs are limited to this bill only, and the outputs are likely only those under the purview of the CBO.  This isn't a real economic model.</p>
<p>2.  There is no standing models that exist for the current system, with all outputs considered</p>
<p>3.  There is no model, as described above, for properly evaluating whether an alternate model is as good as, better than, or worse than, any other model.</p>
<p>We will get <i>nowhere</i> if we don't benchmark!</p>
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		<title>By: 53_3</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81350</link>
		<dc:creator>53_3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81350</guid>
		<description>I think that what might be a good idea if one is to model a system is to include &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;all&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; the outputs and constrain the inputs.

The &quot;inputs&quot; here, in this case, &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;should&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; be one of the better run examples of single payer &lt;i&gt;elsewhere&lt;/i&gt; in the world, altered to be adapted to our country.  Does Elmondorf&#039;s adaptation of the CBO model do this?  &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;I seriously doubt it&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;.

The outputs, to be fair, &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;must include the effects of relieving business, large and small, of the burden of having to provide health care coverage&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;.  And I know, since we haven&#039;t heard so much as an official whisper from &lt;i&gt;anyone*&lt;/i&gt; on the supply-side effects, &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;the model is invalid&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/b&gt;.

I don&#039;t need to be an economist to come to this conclusion.  I&#039;m only applying the things I&#039;ve learned from my experience in modeling systems.  Even if an expert cranks a flawed model, it will still output garbage.  Where&#039;s the benchmarking?

*Obama alluded to this at the height of the debates over the auto bailout and the union give-backs at that time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that what might be a good idea if one is to model a system is to include <i><b>all</b></i> the outputs and constrain the inputs.</p>
<p>The "inputs" here, in this case, <i><b>should</b></i> be one of the better run examples of single payer <i>elsewhere</i> in the world, altered to be adapted to our country.  Does Elmondorf's adaptation of the CBO model do this?  <i><b>I seriously doubt it</b></i>.</p>
<p>The outputs, to be fair, <i><b>must include the effects of relieving business, large and small, of the burden of having to provide health care coverage</b></i>.  And I know, since we haven't heard so much as an official whisper from <i>anyone*</i> on the supply-side effects, <i><b>the model is invalid</b></i>.</p>
<p>I don't need to be an economist to come to this conclusion.  I'm only applying the things I've learned from my experience in modeling systems.  Even if an expert cranks a flawed model, it will still output garbage.  Where's the benchmarking?</p>
<p>*Obama alluded to this at the height of the debates over the auto bailout and the union give-backs at that time.</p>
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		<title>By: Health Care. (united health care, universal health care) &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Elmendorf: More Cost Control; Orszag: We&#8217;re Already On It.</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81294</link>
		<dc:creator>Health Care. (united health care, universal health care) &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Elmendorf: More Cost Control; Orszag: We&#8217;re Already On It.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81294</guid>
		<description>[...] Elmendorf, director of the Congresional Budget Office, sent tremors through Washington when he gave congressional tesitmony on Thursday. Appearing first before the Senate Finance [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Elmendorf, director of the Congresional Budget Office, sent tremors through Washington when he gave congressional tesitmony on Thursday. Appearing first before the Senate Finance [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Top Posts &#171; WordPress.com</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81274</link>
		<dc:creator>Top Posts &#171; WordPress.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 00:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81274</guid>
		<description>[...]  A Big Setback for Health Reform? Read this quote, from Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, testifying before the Senate Budget [...] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  A Big Setback for Health Reform? Read this quote, from Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, testifying before the Senate Budget [...] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Obama Steps In Front of Health Care &#8216;No&#8217;&#160;&#124;&#160;TaylorMarsh.com</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81176</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama Steps In Front of Health Care &#8216;No&#8217;&#160;&#124;&#160;TaylorMarsh.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81176</guid>
		<description>[...] 17 July 2009 2:08 pm by Taylor Marsh       Mr. Elmendorf was unequivocal. “No, Mr. Chairman,” he replied. “In the legislation that has been reported, we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health-care costs.” - Time [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 17 July 2009 2:08 pm by Taylor Marsh       Mr. Elmendorf was unequivocal. “No, Mr. Chairman,” he replied. “In the legislation that has been reported, we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health-care costs.” - Time [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Health Reform: Bending that Curve - Swampland - TIME.com</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81170</link>
		<dc:creator>Health Reform: Bending that Curve - Swampland - TIME.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81170</guid>
		<description>[...] (0) &#8226; Related Topics: congress, health care, douglas elmendorf, peter orszag   In reading the comments of CBO Director Doug Elmendorf from yesterday, a number of Swampland commenters asked what, precisely, might be done as part of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (0) &bull; Related Topics: congress, health care, douglas elmendorf, peter orszag   In reading the comments of CBO Director Doug Elmendorf from yesterday, a number of Swampland commenters asked what, precisely, might be done as part of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: pirate wench (demwoman)</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81162</link>
		<dc:creator>pirate wench (demwoman)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81162</guid>
		<description>Thank ye, KT!  

This do be one o&#039; th&#039; issues tha&#039; be no&#039; gettin&#039; near enough attention...&#039;long wi&#039; patients insistin&#039; on havin&#039; expensive, unnecessary tests, procedures, an&#039; medicine just &#039;cause it b thar.

I be firmly b&#039;lievin&#039; a single-payer system be th&#039; solution fer insurin&#039;, bu&#039; th&#039; other side - th&#039; doctor an&#039; patient side, needs t&#039; be takin&#039; another look a&#039; themselves, too.  All th&#039; cov&#039;rage in th&#039; world won&#039;t be doin&#039; no good if costs can&#039;t be contained an&#039; outcomes can&#039;t be improved!


Arrgh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank ye, KT!  </p>
<p>This do be one o' th' issues tha' be no' gettin' near enough attention...'long wi' patients insistin' on havin' expensive, unnecessary tests, procedures, an' medicine just 'cause it b thar.</p>
<p>I be firmly b'lievin' a single-payer system be th' solution fer insurin', bu' th' other side - th' doctor an' patient side, needs t' be takin' another look a' themselves, too.  All th' cov'rage in th' world won't be doin' no good if costs can't be contained an' outcomes can't be improved!</p>
<p>Arrgh!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul-no not that one</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81153</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul-no not that one</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81153</guid>
		<description>Just in case you missed this KT-

Six key Senate Centrists--Ben Nelson (D-NE), Joe Lieberman (I-CT), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Susan Collins (R-ME), and Ron Wyden (D-OR)--are asking Democratic and Republican leaders to slow down the pace of health care reform efforts. 

&quot;[I]n the view of [CBO Director Doug Elmendorf&#039;s] statement, there is much heavy lifting ahead,&quot; reads a letter the group signed today. &quot;We look forward to working with you to develop legislation that is vital to the well-being of the American people and urge you to resist timelines which prevent us from achieving the best results.&quot;


And to think I was worried about HC being slowly muddled to death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just in case you missed this KT-</p>
<p>Six key Senate Centrists--Ben Nelson (D-NE), Joe Lieberman (I-CT), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Olympia Snowe (R-ME), Susan Collins (R-ME), and Ron Wyden (D-OR)--are asking Democratic and Republican leaders to slow down the pace of health care reform efforts. </p>
<p>"[I]n the view of [CBO Director Doug Elmendorf's] statement, there is much heavy lifting ahead," reads a letter the group signed today. "We look forward to working with you to develop legislation that is vital to the well-being of the American people and urge you to resist timelines which prevent us from achieving the best results."</p>
<p>And to think I was worried about HC being slowly muddled to death.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Tumulty</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/16/big-setback-for-health-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-81134</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Tumulty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14636#comment-81134</guid>
		<description>The Atul Gawande piece in the New Yorker (often cited by Obama) is a great explanation, and it looks at things in your very own state, which also happens to have the highest rate of uninsured in the country :

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

I also highly recommend my colleague michael grunwald&#039;s look at how the mayo clinic does things differently. You can find a link here:

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/06/19/must-read-health-care-story-of-the-day/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Atul Gawande piece in the New Yorker (often cited by Obama) is a great explanation, and it looks at things in your very own state, which also happens to have the highest rate of uninsured in the country :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande" rel="nofollow">http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande</a></p>
<p>I also highly recommend my colleague michael grunwald's look at how the mayo clinic does things differently. You can find a link here:</p>
<p><a href="http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/06/19/must-read-health-care-story-of-the-day/" rel="nofollow">http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/06/19/must-read-health-care-story-of-the-day/</a></p>
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