Obama's Global Warming Pragmatism, Cont'd In Italy
In the early hours of Wednesday morning, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was asked to define success in international global warming negotiations. "Well, look," Gibbs said, as he braced himself through a patch of rough turbulence on Air Force One, which was at the moment crossing Europe on its way to Rome. "I think in many ways success for us is going to be getting something through Congress and to his desk that puts in place a system, a market-based system that lessens the amount of greenhouses gases in the air. Look, that's going to be the true measure of things." It was a classic statement of Obama's governance style: Success was defined as passing a broad concept through Congress. The details, as in the exact rate of greenhouse gas reduction, did not matter as much.
Around the same time, Greenpeace activists in South Dakota were preparing to scale Mouth Rushmore to protest this very pragmatism that has so far characterized Obama's time in office. "America honors leaders, not politicians," read the banner, which ran the length of Abraham Lincoln's stone face after it was unfurled. By day's end, the Greenpeace Activists had been arrested, and President Obama had helped negotiate an agreement at the G8 summit in L'Aquila, Italy, that was very politic, all but embracing the leadership style that Greenpeace was condemning.
"[The G8 countries] pledged to confront the challenges of climate change and committed to seek an ambitious global agreement," explained Mike Froman, Obama's chief negotiator at the summit. "They agreed to join with other countries to achieve a 50 percent reduction in global emissions by 2050 and a goal of 80 percent reduction by developed countries by 2050." But there was a hitch. The 50 and 80 percent reductions did not all refer to the same starting number, as Todd Stern, Obama's special envoy for climate change went on to explain. "The language in the G8 declaration is that it's an 80 percent reduction from 1990 or later years," he said. In other words, nations would pick their own starting point. In the U.S., emissions have increased nearly 16 percent since 1990, so there is quite a bit of room to fudge. And even with the fungible details, China and India did not sign on to the statement.
For the Obama administration, the G8 statement was yet another incremental success, pushing forward on a difficult issue where there is no international consensus, and an untested consensus in the U.S. Senate. It was, for the White House, a success. For the same reasons, the Greenpeace rock climbers consider it a failure.
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1
In lots of cases, evolution is better than revolution. Progress is made incrementally. I don't see how negotiating global compliance in incremental steps is any different. Am I missing something?
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SPLL CHEVK POLICE!
Last paragraph - "incrimental" should be "incremental". You don't need spell check; we're here for you. Otherwise, thanks for the post, MS. If no one else paid attention to Greenpeace protestors, at least they had Lincoln's ear. But if they partially covered Lincoln's face, are they sending the wrong visual message that Lincoln is a masked gun-wielding terrorist - just those ones you see on TV? YOU know the media is the message, MS, but I think they missed this point. Shame on them. -
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OT, but Ginsburg's interview in the NY Times Magazine is fascinating and entertaining: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/magazine/12ginsburg-t.html?pagewanted=1&hp
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I had no idea they take off their shoes under their robes, like in Roman Holiday. (She talks about more substantive stuff too). -
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My main objection is that your advancing a CW storyline by using an atypical example. Pitching Obama's pragmatism against DFH idealism works when your talking about global warmning and Greenpeace protesters can be successfully depicted as outliers.
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But when the issue at hand is extraconstitional detention of prisoners or caving on the public-insurance option then it's the administration's position that represents the outlier.
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But that wouldn't further the narrative..... -
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MNG
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Unfortunately a precise tenet of radical leftist is, in fact, revolution over evolution. A stark break from the past is seen as the only gauge of progress.-
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Isn't that how this country got started? but I digress...
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(testing the direct replies but yes, I'm replying to you) -
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deconstructiva
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Revolutionary change is not always a negative. However, when your sole measure of progress is absolute dissolution of existing norms, when you fail to recognize any evolutionary change, when you assault those pushing your own agenda simply because it is not revolutionary enough, than you are a radical, and a irrational one at that. If Greenpeace wants change, they should welcome it in any forms.
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neo: at least among us swamprats, I don't think you can objectively say that. I haven't seen too many threads where any of us - left or right - claimed we should throw all of the bums out, or completely do away with some governmental staple, etc. You're making generalities that don't stand.
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Interesting new format for the comments, but the new-line stuff still doesn't work. -
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semi OT but re: new page graphics now loading here –
Nice clean minimal look but memo to High Sheriffs: need photos of reporters on each post. Where are the really hot pics of Amy, Karen, Jay? (jk, sort of) The teeny tiny thumbnails of our five fave reporters (aka The Incredibles) on home page are NOT enough. Seriously (ha!), would you consider a more risible graphic for the banner than an etch-a-sketch dwg. of the White House? Thanks.... -
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From MS' old digs (just the facts mam):
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https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/waxman-markey-good-bad-and-ugly -
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Unfortunately a precise tenet of radical leftist is, in fact, revolution over evolution
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Do you actually know anyone who thinks like that? Or did you read it somewhere?
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Perhaps in a comic...../snark -
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So, must voice my displeasure with one aspect of the remodeling- Comments should read top to bottom in chronlogical order. It makes no sense at all to scroll up from the bottom to read a thread, when a long post would require scrolling up to the top of it, then down as you read it, and then back up. Not cool.
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"Unfortunately a precise tenet of radical leftist is, in fact, revolution over evolution." I don't know if this is or isn't true but are you really suggesting that most of the Swampland readers/ writers are "radical leftists?" And of course in contrast you are the the thoughtful Republican whose "moral" (though not religious) beliefs coincidentally mirror traditional Christian orthodoxy? -
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Actually, by qualifying my statement with the term "radical" it is assuredly true. Radical movements, by nature, are those that seek revolutionary change. Had I merely said leftists, I would have erred. But, alas, radical leftists are radical no less, and I stand by my assessment.
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Might I add that my comment was in no way directed at Swamplanders, but at the Greenepeacers who reject modest gains, seeking instead, revolutionary change.
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And piper, my philosophy most assuredly, and not coincidentally, mirrors Christian principles. However, I argue my positions not from a religious standpoint, because that is wholly unproductive in that I cannot expect any one else to accept my views if based solely on religious conviction. Christianity guides my thinking, but it does not constitute the sole basis of my rationale.
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Unfortunately a precise tenet of radical rightist is, in fact, straw men over rational argumentation.
New layout looks pretty sharp! Would like to see hyperlinked text stand out a bit more, and for the conversation to run from top to bottom, after the usual manner of written English, but all in all, this is pleasant enough. Thanks for caring enough to play around with it!
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Elvis
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I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that, although straw man arguments are certainly not solely indicative of the far-right. But you can swing away at the far-right all you like without a peep from me, as I do not subscribe to far-right positions. -
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You'll never get a conservative to admit that Obama is a true climate change pragmatist...
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Another format. Lot cleaner have to get use to though.
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WTF my comment number 1. Who the nerds who done done this/
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Argh! Teh change!
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Why can't we get change we can believe in from Time mag?
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20.1
...probably because MSM = RWTP's still apply. If some stories get facts backwards, then it's fitting to make our comments backwards (and sometimes disappear? sorry to see your first one vanished).
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What others have said--praise the change, but color the links and invert the comments. Most of us follow the threads throughout--we don't need to start with "In the beginning, God created ..."
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But color me thrilled that I don't have to click pg. 2, 3 etc. to reach the most recent comments-
21.1
Top priority for the Sheriffs, at least now that we have inter-paragraph spacing: highlight the links without having to move the cursor over every word in every comment. It must be do-able, because it's done (in red) in the posts. We'd like the same opportunity to put a link into a flowing sentence rather than having to break up a thought with the appearance of parenthetical gibberish.
To quote Dr. Frederick Frankenstein,
"It
could
work!"
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I'd add that given the long-ago end to the endless campaign, I also prefer the new banner image (not merely BHO).
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"What others have said--praise the change, but color the links and invert the comments. Most of us follow the threads throughout--we don't need to start with "In the beginning, God created ..."
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The problem is my firefox browser is defaulting to the bottom of the page? -
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You say you want a revolution, well, you know,
We all want to change the world...-- some guy named John
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Wow! Best comment ever, spobby! I knew you had it in you.
I'm not sure I like the new format. Change makes my eyes hurt, but maybe in a couple years I'll get used to it. Just don't change it again for a while.
As for Greenpeace and the other DFHs, while I think they're silly radicals (and I suspect I would have felt the same about Adams, Paine and the rest of that crowd), it might help to look at things a bit from their view - how many times has "incremental change" petered out after 2 increments when 2,000 increments were actually needed?
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