Hair Shirt

I support the right of whoever to wear hats or whatever in public. Or not. So whose side does that make me on? What are we arguing about?

Thanks for reminding us that Sarah Palin isn't the only silly ass this country has to talk about.

It's called a bait and switch. Such a tempting tactic that even people I agree with occasionally engage in it.

" .. It turns out, some women don't like to wear burqas! "

Some, in fact millions, in USA don't like to wear clothes - not a stitch - and even as they saunter down a bust street! With kids looking at them!

[Damm those culture policemen and judges who would lock them up!]

I noticed that the statues in Coulon Park here in Renton have been clothed, with rather outdated garb, even. They were nude but highly stylized caricatures of athletic walkers. No more.
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Has Al-Queda become the new fashion police? Or is it the work of the Commentary crowd.
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Are we headed for a new phase of Muslim/Jewish antagonism encapsulated by fashion wars? And what does the Commentary Crowd say about that?

"even though the dress rules in Iran do not require her to do so"

Don't they? According to Wikipedia, they do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_women#Under_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran

I read that these rules were less enforced during campaign season, but they're still in place and will likely be enforced again.

"I'm sure this also means that the folks at Commentary are going to campaign for the rights of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women not to wear hats or wigs in public...right?"
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They might. They were adamantly opposed to ultra-Orthodox efforts to shut down the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem.
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But more to the point, that is, ahem, a hair shirt. There is no evidence of government sponsored organizations beating those men and women if they fail to comply with religious stricture. Nor is there evidence of widespread beatings at home if they fail to comply.
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I sometimes wonder how stupid you are, Joe. Then you answer by writing something like this.

Hmmm...
Who to trust? The guy who just returned from Iran? Or the guy who bookmarks Pamela Geller?
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ding ding....we have a winner!

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There is no evidence of government sponsored organizations beating those men and women if they fail to comply with religious stricture.
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And what, exactly, does that have to do with Obama stating that Muslim women can wear what they want?

destor23: I support the right of whoever to wear hats or whatever in public. Or not. So whose side does that make me on? What are we arguing about?

If that includes the right of Muslim women, you are on the side of the turrrists!

"And what, exactly, does that have to do with Obama stating that Muslim women can wear what they want?"
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I wasn't responding to Obama's statement. I was responding to Joe's idiotic statement about ultra-Orthodox.
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"Who to trust? The guy who just returned from Iran? Or the guy who bookmarks Pamela Geller?"
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Is that a reference to me? I don't know who Pamela Geller is.

Shorter Joe: Dig how much cooler I am than those guys at Commentary.

mrein:
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There are certainly dress codes in Iran for both men and women...and mostly for women, obviously. But Zahra Rahnavard, Mousavi's wife, definitely dresses more conservative (although definitely not Saudi-style) than many of the woman in the larger cities in Iran, especially the younger women. In the cities, many Iranian woman wear a stylish scarf, pulled back to expose as much hair as they can get away with. This is usually accompanied by a form fitting three-quarter length jacket, jeans, and either sneakers or open-toed shoes. Among the younger woman, makeup and hair-dye is used quite liberally. And Iran has one of the highest rates of nose-jobs in the world...among both men and women. (again, mostly among the younger folks)
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It is true that the government will, at times, more "conservatively" interpret the dress codes, but in the last 10 or so years most women in Iranian cities have gotten away with dressing very stylish - even sexy - without getting harassed by the cops or Basiji thugs. In fact, the dress among women today in Iraq is much more conservative than in Iran. Women's dress in Iran isn't like Beirut or Tel Aviv but it's certainly nothing like, say, Saudi Arabia.
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No why are we talking about this?

ogliberal-
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Thanks for the information.
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"Now why are we talking about this?"
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Just to correct what appeared (and even after your information still appears) to be a clear error by Joe.

Matching Joe's own penchant for records (broken), if the Commentary is so batsh!t crazy and irrelevant, why pay them so much heed, mocking or otherwise. Wouldn't it add far more to our discourse if you were to engage with the base of the party that is in power, with whom you might disagree (but could at least acknowledge, perhaps, that we're not evil):
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For ex...
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"Moreover, the U.S. barely has begun to face the enormous financial bill for the war. By our accounting, the U.S. has already spent $1 trillion on operations and related defense spending, with more to come -- and it will cost perhaps $2 trillion more to repay the war debt, replenish military equipment and provide care and treatment for U.S. veterans back home. Many of the wounded will require indefinite care for brain and spinal injuries. Disability payments are ramping up and will grow higher for decades. The stress of extended, multiple tours to Iraq means that a whole generation of U.S. military men and women may now be suffering from long-term mental health issues. The suicide rate in the Army is at its highest level since record-keeping began.
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This wartime spending undoubtedly has been a major contributor to our present economic collapse. The U.S. has waged an expensive war as if it required little or no economic sacrifice, funding the conflict by massive borrowing. As we've observed in the past, you can't spend $3 trillion on a reckless foreign war and not feel the pain at home."
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http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/457378
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Or this:
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"Following almost two weeks in which the U.S. (and global) media went berserk over the death of one man, in which NBC, for instance, devoted all but about five minutes of one of its prime-time half-hour news broadcasts to nothing -- and I mean nothing -- but the death of Michael Jackson, in which the President of the United States sent a condolence letter to the Jackson family (and was faulted for not having moved more quickly), in which 1.6 million people registered for a chance to get one of 17,500 free tickets to his memorial service... well, why go on? Unless you've been competing in isolation in the next round of Survivor, or are somehow without a TV, or possibly any modern means of communication, you simply can't avoid knowing the rest.
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You'd have to make a desperate effort not to know that Michael Jackson (until recently excoriated by the media) had died, and you'd have to make a similarly desperate effort to know that we've knocked off one wedding party after another these last years in Afghanistan. One of these deaths -- Jackson's -- really has little to do with us; the others are, or should be, our responsibility, part of an endless war the American people have either supported or not stopped from continuing. And yet one is a screaming global headline; the others go unnoticed."
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http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175092/are_afghan_lives_worth_anything_

People should be free to do what they want. We don't want to be a bunch of racist POS's like the French government (and many of their people).

Yeah, ok, we know, those guys are morons. So does the rest of America, that's why there are like three dozen angry white dudes left who identify as Republicans.
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It's worth putting the boot into Commentary, but it's substantially less important than going after the Broderian cult of centrism-- people with power who are making the world worse. Please write about them.

Paul Dirks 3:50 pm: " .. Who to trust? The guy who just returned from Iran? "

There are people who tell us tales about American, our system of government and our POTUS. They are not necessarily bad people. Like Bill Kristol. And Kraumather. And Newt Gingrich. And FOX News network.

But don't be in a rush to put your trust in Rush Limbaugh's word - whatever his claim to authority and/or legitimacy may be.

Note: Political/ethnic commentators generally express a political/ethnic opinion. And most do not claim to be objective journalists. The same may be said of editorial columnists.
As such perhaps you will forgive us if we think that alternative/contrary opinions that are just as valid may also exist.

Um, mrein, have you noticed that just like Iraq, Iran is not part of the USA.
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A hint:
U.S.A. stands for United States of America
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If you need to, grab a map and look for a continent named 'America'. You will immediately notice that 'Iran' is nowhere near it.
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One other thing:
You do know what a continent is, don't you...

In the USA, people already have the right to wear pretty much what they want to wear, although they may have to suffer the harassment of idiots who have the right to express themselves in a non-violent way. Is thee anything else that needs to be said?

I think the story here should be the CYBER attack on the White House and the domestic terrorists who roam free. Now this attack is hardly surprising because I have written to the FBI and the US Secret Service a number of times regarding Shay Riley of the website “Black Women Blow The Trumpet”.. a so called Black Power Site which is used as a front for launching attacks against individuals.

These online THUGS also listen to my phone calls and activate my microphone to listen to my messages generally illegally viciously and unrelentingly following me from site to site. THIS WOMAN IS A CYBER THUG. A HOODLUM and yet on the domestic front using benign sites she has been able to thwart law enforcement and remains free to date.

She and her husband AKBAR SHABAZZ of the website http://www.akbarshabazz.com are DOMESTIC TERRORISTS and even these beasts have NOT BEEN STOPPED, INVESTIGATED AND MADE TO FACE THE FULL FORCE AND EFFECT OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM. HOW THEN CAN WE HOPE TO STOP ATTACKS FROM THE OUTSIDE WHEN THESE FELONS ON THE DOMESTIC FRONT HAVE NOT BEEN INVESTIGATED ON A CONSISTENT AND VIGOROUS BASIS.

This SHAY RILEY is probably a Pedophile, definitely a CYBER THUG who breaks into hundreds of sites daily and alters them with impunity. Committing felony after felony DAILY. A brazen Predator. This CYBER THUG SHAY RILEY who owns numerous sites including the website “BlackFemaleInterracial Marriage blog” is FREE and providing Predators and other CYBER TERRORISTS BOTH DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL with the impetus to use online TECHNOLOGY AND TELEPHONIC ABILITY TO ATTACK, RAPE AND VIOLATE INNOCENT CITIZENS!

That they attacked the White House is an index of the glaring inability of Law enforcement to vigorously investigate and route EVEN DOMESTIC CYBER TERRORISTS like this vermin Shay Riley and others of her ilk.

I believe that the French prohibition on the hijab in its public schools is designed to undermine people who would force Muslim girls to wear it. Perhaps that's not a good enough reason, but it certainly takes the ban out of the realm of racism and lunacy. Likely, Obama had no idea about the reason for the passage of the law when he opened his yap.

retiredsoldier 7:56 pm : " .. In the USA, people already have the right to wear pretty much what they want to wear, .. "

Ah. The much-touted 'rights' and 'freedoms'.

In USA, a woman may rightly walk down the street wearing a burqa - and some have paid for that right and preference in attire with their lives. Result: Muslim and Hindi women scared to wear pretty what they prefer.

And of course, a Muslim man is aware that if he is to have it a little easier at our airports and in the air, he better not stand out and be profiled as a Muslim.

In Iran, USA, France and just about anywhere else one can wear pretty what one wants to wear. But there are consequences if one deviates from the norm. In USA, you can walk down any busy street wearing little or no clothes at all. But there may be dire consequences - including a police record, a fine and/or jail term.

The USA is marketed in the world as a land of freedom/ liberty for the individual - and to show for that, we have in our prison system, over 2 million of those who would take liberties.

SO?
------ ways of the free world
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

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spob " .. I believe that the French prohibition on the hijab in its public schools is designed to undermine people who would force Muslim girls to wear it. Perhaps that's not a good enough reason, but it certainly takes the ban out of the realm of racism and lunacy.."

My experience suggests that most (in fact nearly all) Muslim girls prefer to wear the hijab / burqa. Shouldn't they be as free to wear it as those who prefer to wear jeans, dresses and minis and stilettos etc?

Your reason is less that stellar.

From "I believe" you go on to "perhaps" and then onto to conclude "it certainly ..."

Now before you arrived at your "certainty" did you forget to do some reasoning/deductions in between and perhaps even establishing then integrity of your premise or "belief"?
[Or are you into the realm of 'faith' (belief) that needs no empirical evidence (certainty)?]

Indeed, the ban is smack in the realm of racism, lunacy and crusadist/christianist viciousness.

spob cares about racism?

Tell me another joke!