Comments on: The Barracuda Lets Go http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/ A blog about politics. Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:40:46 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: lostepic http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-5/#comment-78180 lostepic Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:27:27 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78180 First I would like to point out how we have effectively made this blogs commentary no longer about Palin. . @53_3: Please understand that I was in no way insinuating that due to the origin of the name that the Palestinians don’t belong there. As well as the use of such facts is never a excuse for "rationalization behind the slow motion ethnic cleansing” and in no way do I accept, promote or condone such action who ever they are. . @Exiled: “This populace lived and grew in Palestine for 1300 years before aggressive Jewish immigration was sparked by the 1917 Balfour Declaration" True. Several Ethnic groups lived and existed in the area long before Muhammad was born. @Exilted: I was just stating a brief bit of history. Thanks for the full proper term "Syria Palaestina". "The region was conquered in the 8th century my Mohammedan forces and was settled by people” This also true. Just because Mohammedan forces declared war and conquered Christian, Jewish and other ethnic groups who lived there centuries before Islam was brought into the world it doesn’t condone "aggressive Jewish immigration" returning to the land of their ancestors. . I really believe that the Palestinians deserve and ought to have their own nation state. I really don’t want to have a back and forth discussion of a topic that has this much depth and allow misunderstanding to come through. Discussions of this nature tend to be better suited for face to face discussion over coffee not a every other day response on a blog. "their views" "I debated these guys" When I read that I assumed that it was in reference to me or those that are dogmatic and take different ideas to the extreme. If I read to much into, and I most likely have, that just proves my point that knowing someones intition is awefully difficult. First I would like to point out how we have effectively made this blogs commentary no longer about Palin.
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@53_3: Please understand that I was in no way insinuating that due to the origin of the name that the Palestinians don't belong there. As well as the use of such facts is never a excuse for "rationalization behind the slow motion ethnic cleansing” and in no way do I accept, promote or condone such action who ever they are.
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@Exiled: “This populace lived and grew in Palestine for 1300 years before aggressive Jewish immigration was sparked by the 1917 Balfour Declaration" True. Several Ethnic groups lived and existed in the area long before Muhammad was born.
@Exilted: I was just stating a brief bit of history. Thanks for the full proper term "Syria Palaestina".
"The region was conquered in the 8th century my Mohammedan forces and was settled by people” This also true. Just because Mohammedan forces declared war and conquered Christian, Jewish and other ethnic groups who lived there centuries before Islam was brought into the world it doesn't condone "aggressive Jewish immigration" returning to the land of their ancestors.
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I really believe that the Palestinians deserve and ought to have their own nation state. I really don't want to have a back and forth discussion of a topic that has this much depth and allow misunderstanding to come through. Discussions of this nature tend to be better suited for face to face discussion over coffee not a every other day response on a blog. "their views" "I debated these guys" When I read that I assumed that it was in reference to me or those that are dogmatic and take different ideas to the extreme. If I read to much into, and I most likely have, that just proves my point that knowing someones intition is awefully difficult.

]]> By: yutsano http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-5/#comment-78161 yutsano Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:51:53 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78161 <i>Sorry. As someone who is less than fastidious about his own grammar, I had to.</i> - GRAMMAR NAZIS SIEG HEIL!!! - Actually the Internet has made me calm down a lot about the mangling of English I see around out there. Now whenever I see it on a professional website (which is much too often) I get upset and want to e-mail their copy editors and woodshed them. Folks who post, however, would just type even more wrong just to annoy me, and it would pretty much change nothing. Sorry. As someone who is less than fastidious about his own grammar, I had to.
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GRAMMAR NAZIS SIEG HEIL!!!
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Actually the Internet has made me calm down a lot about the mangling of English I see around out there. Now whenever I see it on a professional website (which is much too often) I get upset and want to e-mail their copy editors and woodshed them. Folks who post, however, would just type even more wrong just to annoy me, and it would pretty much change nothing.

]]> By: ohiolib http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78143 ohiolib Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:47:13 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78143 Isn't there some linguistic anti-terrorism statute that makes it a federal offense to use "progress" as a transitive verb, maybe with an enhanced sentence for offenders claiming to hold journalism degrees? - FO is one of those fancy shmancy elitists who's gonna make you marry a man and speak French with his hoity toity intellectualizin' of his, don'cha know?. Sorry. As someone who is less than fastidious about his own grammar, I had to. Isn't there some linguistic anti-terrorism statute that makes it a federal offense to use "progress" as a transitive verb, maybe with an enhanced sentence for offenders claiming to hold journalism degrees?
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FO is one of those fancy shmancy elitists who's gonna make you marry a man and speak French with his hoity toity intellectualizin' of his, don'cha know?.

Sorry. As someone who is less than fastidious about his own grammar, I had to.

]]> By: FlownOver http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78043 FlownOver Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:21:44 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78043 (unhijacking the thread) . Isn't there some linguistic anti-terrorism statute that makes it a federal offense to use "progress" as a transitive verb, maybe with an enhanced sentence for offenders claiming to hold journalism degrees? (unhijacking the thread)
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Isn't there some linguistic anti-terrorism statute that makes it a federal offense to use "progress" as a transitive verb, maybe with an enhanced sentence for offenders claiming to hold journalism degrees?

]]> By: dunedweller http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78033 dunedweller Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:27:30 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78033 <em>dunedweller Says: Saturday, July 4, 2009 at 10:19 pm I'm a little disappointed Swamp didn't post something patriotic and uplifting today</em> . Like this... . http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5099152n&tag=contentMain;contentBody dunedweller Says:
Saturday, July 4, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I'm a little disappointed Swamp didn't post something patriotic and uplifting today
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Like this...
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http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5099152n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

]]> By: 53_3 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78029 53_3 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:57:17 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78029 Excellent stuff, exiled. . Once one gets past the blowhard rhetoric, one finds that there is very, <i>very</i> little that supports their views. . I debated these guys over on Independent Argument, UK (a now-defunct bbs), and these guys excelled at diversions into both secular and religious history in order prop up their claims in a way that was both confusing and weirdly rational. . Nothing like a hot knife to cut through the butter... Excellent stuff, exiled.
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Once one gets past the blowhard rhetoric, one finds that there is very, very little that supports their views.
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I debated these guys over on Independent Argument, UK (a now-defunct bbs), and these guys excelled at diversions into both secular and religious history in order prop up their claims in a way that was both confusing and weirdly rational.
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Nothing like a hot knife to cut through the butter...

]]> By: Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo) http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78028 Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo) Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:49:00 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78028 Upon further research it is clear that the Latin term <i>Palaestina</i>, which I have just referenced, is translated in Arabic to <i>Filisṭīn</i>. The Roman provinces of Judea and Galilee were conjoined under the reference, <i>Syria Palaestina.</i> Thus the Philistine reference you have mentioned is, in fact, one and the same with the Palaestina term I have referenced. Illustrating, once again, that historical certainties are forever misconstrued to fit into specific agendas. Upon further research it is clear that the Latin term Palaestina, which I have just referenced, is translated in Arabic to Filisṭīn. The Roman provinces of Judea and Galilee were conjoined under the reference, Syria Palaestina. Thus the Philistine reference you have mentioned is, in fact, one and the same with the Palaestina term I have referenced. Illustrating, once again, that historical certainties are forever misconstrued to fit into specific agendas.

]]> By: Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo) http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78026 Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo) Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:37:35 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78026 *<i>Palaestina</i> *Palaestina

]]> By: Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo) http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78025 Exiled_At_Home (formerly neo) Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:32:29 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78025 And might I add that while Rome may have used the term <i>Philistia</i> out of mockery, the technical reference to the area was, in fact, <i>Palestina.</i> And as for nomadic Arab peoples claim this is inaccurate. Current day Palestine/Israel was never at any point uninhabited. The region was conquered in the 8th century my Mohammedan forces and was settled by people who we now refer to as Palestinians. This populace lived and grew in Palestine for 1300 years before aggressive Jewish immigration was sparked by the 1917 Balfour Declaration. The term Palestinian was adopted due to the local population's 1300 year existence in the land referred to by the Romans as <i>Palestina</i>. And might I add that while Rome may have used the term Philistia out of mockery, the technical reference to the area was, in fact, Palestina. And as for nomadic Arab peoples claim this is inaccurate. Current day Palestine/Israel was never at any point uninhabited. The region was conquered in the 8th century my Mohammedan forces and was settled by people who we now refer to as Palestinians. This populace lived and grew in Palestine for 1300 years before aggressive Jewish immigration was sparked by the 1917 Balfour Declaration. The term Palestinian was adopted due to the local population's 1300 year existence in the land referred to by the Romans as Palestina.

]]> By: 53_3 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/07/03/the-barracuda-lets-go/comment-page-4/#comment-78023 53_3 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:55:01 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=14293#comment-78023 lostepic: . However, let it be said that <i>regardless of history</i> there is no legalities behind the taking of land from people who, at the beginning of the "settler" activites from 1967 onward, were Palestinians, for the most part. . I take this positon: . <i>If the land prior to the establishment of the footprint of any "settlement" <b>overlaps or overlapped with land owned by someone else</b> then that land is not available to "settle" on.</i> . Very simple reasoning. If it ain't yours, <i><b>you cannot take it</i></b>. . The historical and religious issues are merely a pretext for perpetuation two things, both instances of obscurantism: . 1. The "complexity" myth Used to discourage those who observing from afar. 2. A simple rationalization Used in claiming that the taking of land is legitimate. As an example, the statement: . <i>"So the Palestinians we have today are really nomadic Arabs who had to adopt a national identity when the land was carved up from the West i.e. Britain primarily."</i> . Can be used to imply that the Palestinians don't really belong there in the first place. This becomes the rationalization behind the slow motion "ethnic cleansing*" now taking place. . *Ethnic cleansing is simply the removal of an ethnic group from a specific geographic area. Ethnic cleansing can be accomplished by attrition, a common practice of the Israelis. Pogroms and other means to carry out ethnic cleansing are a separate issue. lostepic:
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However, let it be said that regardless of history there is no legalities behind the taking of land from people who, at the beginning of the "settler" activites from 1967 onward, were Palestinians, for the most part.
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I take this positon:
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If the land prior to the establishment of the footprint of any "settlement" overlaps or overlapped with land owned by someone else then that land is not available to "settle" on.
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Very simple reasoning. If it ain't yours, you cannot take it.
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The historical and religious issues are merely a pretext for perpetuation two things, both instances of obscurantism:
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1. The "complexity" myth
Used to discourage those who observing from afar.
2. A simple rationalization
Used in claiming that the taking of land is legitimate. As an example, the statement:
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"So the Palestinians we have today are really nomadic Arabs who had to adopt a national identity when the land was carved up from the West i.e. Britain primarily."
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Can be used to imply that the Palestinians don't really belong there in the first place. This becomes the rationalization behind the slow motion "ethnic cleansing*" now taking place.
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*Ethnic cleansing is simply the removal of an ethnic group from a specific geographic area. Ethnic cleansing can be accomplished by attrition, a common practice of the Israelis. Pogroms and other means to carry out ethnic cleansing are a separate issue.

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