Crazy Arabs, Crazy Jews
There's a fair amount of twitching going on in the Middle East this week in advance of Barack Obama's address to the Islamic world in Cairo on Thursday. Much of it has to do with the expectation that Obama will put some pressure on the Israelis to stop the expansion of illegal settlements on Palestinian territories. The Netanyahu government is resisting such a step, arguing a technical point: that some of the settlements, especially those around Jerusalem, will remain in Israeli hands after any peace deal, and should be allowed some "natural" expansion. Sorry, but that is an evasion and a bad faith evasion at that. Settlements need to be frozen, no exceptions, right now. Indeed, the need for natural expansion in some of these towns would, theoretically, put pressure on Israel to move with more alacrity toward a peace deal so that people who want to build on extra rooms or extra floors would be able to do so.
The fact is, Israel has to do much more than freeze settlements: it needs to dismantle them, and open up the West Bank roads exclusively used by Jewish settlers to Palestinian use; and tear down the barrier wall in any locale that doesn't conform to the 1967 green line. It certainly needs to send a clear message to the extremists who are rioting on the West Bank today, in support of their illegal outposts--that this sort of behavior will no longer be tolerated. If Israel is going to demand--rightly--that the Palestinians control their terrorists, Israel is going to have to crack down on its own provocateurs.
Meanwhile, the Palestinians are proving themselves every bit as incapable of statehood as they have in the past, with Fatah and Hamas having battles over the weekend. Although Israel--and, quite possibly, Egypt--would like to proceed with negotiations excluding Hamas, no peace, no Palestianian state, is possible without Hamas participation...and, as I've written here in the past, the United States should be moving, informally at first, to talk to Hamas and see if we can mediate between the Palestinian factions in order to move the Israel-Palestinian negotiations in gear.
There is, of course, some fairly predictable bleating going among the winguts and American Likudniks about the "failure" of Obama's diplomatic initiatives. But they've barely started--and they will take time.
Finally, there was some very good news lower down in the Times piece:
In other developments on Sunday, the Israeli cabinet rejected a bill aimed at Israel's Arab minority that would have required a loyalty oath for citizenship. This means the bill, championed by the Yisrael Beiteinu Party of Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, has little chance of passing in the Israeli Parliament. Lawmakers could still sponsor an independent bill on the issue, but it would not have the government's backing.
It's nice to know that there Lieberman remains, despite his participation in the government, an Israeli outlier.
Update: A few weeks ago, Marty Peretz of the New Republic wrote that my position on Israel was held merely to gain access to cocktail parties on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I've had pretty much the same views for 30 years--you could look it up--and I've never been particularly popular in those circles (as Marty well knows, since he's published me about a dozen times over the past 25 years) but it is part of the American Likudnik bully persona to find perjorative rationales for any Jews who dare oppose their extreme and dangerous positions. But no matter: I hold Peretz in higher regard than he does me. I assume he comes by his views honestly. They are prohibitively creepy views: Israel always right, Arabs always subhuman. And today he jumps into the settlement debate with this bit of wisdom:
But the idea of stopping all construction in all settlements means that once again the Israelis will be ceding something in advance and for nothing in return.
Wait a minute. Israel is doing something illegal here. It is taking territory that the rest of the world, without exception, considers Palestinian. This is like saying that someone who steals your car is entitled to keep it unless you agree to give him something else. The best thing to do when you're doing something illegal--unless additional thievery is on your mind--is to stop doing it. Period.
-
1
JK: Thanks for the post. President Obama is going to have to do more than negotiate. He's going to have to do some serious arm-twisting. Any contact, even preliminary feelers, with Hamas is going to cause the right wings both here and in Israel to start the "Obama is negotiating with terrorists" drumbeat.
-
2
Give 'em a break, Joe – they're just trying to keep up with the crazy "Christians" in the U.S.
-
3
Short response: are we ready to be even handed? Do we have the political resolve to do so? Who directs our FP towards Israel: we or Israel? How do we deal with the feckless lot led by Abbass?
-
4
Joe Klein:
.
The fact is, Israel has to do much more than freeze settlements: it needs to dismantle them, and open up the West Bank roads exclusively used by Jewish settlers to Palestinian use; and tear down the barrier wall in any locale that doesn't conform to the 1967 green line.
.
Is there anyone other than far-right Likudniks who might consider this relatively benign and obvious point in the slightest way controversial?
.
Does the Obama Administration consider this position controversial, Joe Klein? If so, why would that ambivalence be? -
5
It's interesting that while Obama's pre-election rhetoric was for significantly more open government that what his administration is actually willing to provide, his pre-election rhetoric on the Middle East OTOH was significantly less evenhanded than his actual governing style seems to be.
-
6
'Israel has to do much more than freeze settlements: it needs to dismantle them ...'
.
I would like to see Obama insist that the settlements be abandoned, but not dismantled. Destroying the buildings is unnecessary and, for the right wing Israelis, the thought that they might be building future homes for Palestinians would make settlement construction a lot less palatable. -
7
[...] Joe Klein: There’s a fair amount of twitching going on in the Middle East this week in advance of [...]
-
8
Joe Klein is an idiot!! And anyone who doubts this is a pot smoking hippie liberal.
-
9
The only thing that is "crazy" is the notion that a Palestenian state will bring peace to the middle east. All this will do is start a demand or war for more territory perpetually by the "Palenstenian state".
This certainly won't solve Iran's hostility towards Israel and it certainly won't stop or curb attacks against Israel or its citizens. Israel should hold firm.
-
10
USAONE and SUPBESEDER: A pot smoking, hippie liberal? I don't always agree with Joe, but this article is right on. Put down the Budweiser.
Israel should back off. World opinion is against them. Unless, of course, all you zealots want to unleash Armageddon. It's Gods plan! I got me a condo in heaven! Israel needs to stop expanding the settlements because it's not right and it's the major reason for the conflicts right now. They use most of the water, and now they say they need to expand because of (gulp) population growth. They are idiots who are using the holocaust as a shield. As the years pass my sympathy is being replaced with annoyance at the egocentric policies of the Israeli government. They are actually related to the Palestinians by blood but they are trying to deny it.
-
11
Joe Klein is an idiot!! And anyone who doubts this is a pot smoking hippie liberal.
.
Actually, he's pretty much right on the mark.
.
A correction: Joe Klein is a pot smoking hippie liberal!! And anyone who doubts this is an idiot. -
12
ficheye-
I happen to like Budweiser. I also happen to think that no matter how you try to placate the PLO, it won't work. I'm not for expansion of settlements. I would like to see a PLO state formed with real borders just so I can say I told you so when they start clamoring for more territory, the destruction of Israel, and the return of every inch of land to Arabs/Muslims. If you think there is any other possible result please check yourself into the nearest mental hospital.
-
13
I do not see the PA as 'incapable of statehood' because even Israel has not been able to stop Hamas.
.
How, given that fact, he expects the PA and Abbas, severely weakened by not having any results to who for peace since the end of the Intefada on the West Bank, accomplish it?
.
With nerf nukes? Rubber hoses?
.
Aside from that, Joe is exactly right on and I will take what I can get. The rest is paranoia that the right wing is trying to sell around the world.
.
I say, no go, and it is time to force Israel to end the "settlements".
.
I can tell you, without a doubt, that usaone would not hesitate to grab his weapon in defense of his home, should the government knock on his door, telling him to leave.
.
Such is usaones' hypocracy... -
14
I'm not for expansion of settlements. I would like to see a PLO state formed with real borders just so I can say I told you so when they start clamoring for more territory.
.
No worries then, if the Israelis get their way. The settlements, when they "naturally expand", will dice up whatever sad Palestinian state exists into isolated chunks. This of course while their cops and armies selectively ignore lawbreakers like these tough guys swiping a home from a 61-year old Palestinian widow. And guys like you would like corporate swill like Buttwiper. Do yourself a favor and support your local brew, your palate will thank you, I'm sure.
.
On-topic: Screw Bibi if that's his attitude. Obama should go ahead and press for the dismantling the ring of Israeli settlements walling off Jerusalem from the world. If Israel is to give him a hard time, why not just apply maximum pressure. -
15
Hmmmmmmm. Didn;t the Palestinians agree not to teach Jew-hatred to the young? That agreement hasn't been kept. Why should Israel have to honor deals that are being broken?
-
16
Pretty weak, spob, considering that the Israelis attempted to impose a "loyalty" oath, and themselves distributed hate leaflets while in war.
.
Let's not mention what is being taught in the "settlements".
.
Straight up push, there... -
17
Joe:
.
Your update tangentially addresses the issues I raised. I thank you for that, and I hope you continue speaking out about this. I think it is important for people to realize that Palestinians, though they are harboring a lot of extremism, are doing so primarily because of this.
.
I reiterate the hypocrisy of the right wingers here who ignore the fact that they would not hesitate to grab his weapon in defense of his home, should the government knock on his door, telling him to leave.
.
This is the core of my claim against the "complexity" rhetoric, as it is pure bullsh!t. -
18
To those that would suggest that support of Israel in this country is a partisan issue, you are sadly mistaken. The notion that conservatives support Israel and liberals do not is a fallacy. Support of Israel is an across the aisle endeavor, aggressively pursued by both right and left wingers. I am a staunch Conservative and generally tend to identify myself with the Republican party, yet I do not condone, support, or rationalize unwavering and biased support for Israel. Demanding that Israel cease all illegal activities is in no way a liberal or irrational position to take, i.e...
-Illegal settlements in Palestinian territory in breach of the 4th Geneva Convention
-Illegal annexation and occupation of Golan Heights (from Syria), Sheba'a Farms (from Lebanon), and large portions of territory adjacent to Gaza and the West Bank that was under the 1947 UN Partition plan to be Palestinian territories. The occupation of territory through military operations is contrary to international law.
-The illegal use of banned munitions, such as white phosphorous
-Assassinations, kidnappings, and illegal detentions
-Overtly inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people residing in Gaza and W. Bank, such as illegal blockades, denial of access to medical treatment, and interception of humanitarian aid
-Endless incidents of attacks on UN and other international aid workers, journalists, and activists
-Not to mention, many incidents aimed at the US (a supposed ally of Israel) such as the bombing of the USS Liberty off the coast of Egypt in 1967 (killing 34 US servicemen)
To demand that Israel be held to the same legal standards as they demand of their Palestinian counterparts is in no way offensive, anti-Israel, or politically charged. It is simply a demand that hypocrisy and double-standards be overcome and replaced by humanity, legality, and rationality. -
19
Joe you play the Kapo very nicely.
All the Jews fenced in my Arab terrorism and Israeli rejectionism. The knives are out for the Jews once again; and this time they have nukes too.
The difference between this time and last time is those Jews who are cowards and think they can escape the maelstrom are selling their own nation down the river.
Everyone knows what is going to happen once Hamas gets the west bank. It will be a blood bath. However no one cares except Israelis and loyal Diaspora Jews. EVERYONE else is happy to take the risk sit back and say ‘they deserved it'.
The amazing thing is that the biggest cheerleaders of the castration of Israel are Diaspora Jews clambering over Israeli's Jews right to life.
What happened to equality? If they want a Judenfrei West Bank how about a Muslim free Israel? If they want peace how about the palestinians stop teaching their kids that Jews drink human blood?
You are no better than the Kapos of the 1940s forcing other Jews into the gas chambers by beating them over the head.
I hope the paycheck makes you sleep nights. However you sound stupid enough to convince yourself you are doing the right thing.
Mr. Babylon! You should be blacklisted from Israel you are a traitor. Why don't you let Hamas write such articles? You do not need to help them.
-
20
Once again, the idea of reaching a 'peace deal' rests with the idea that there are Israeli obligations and Arab rights. Unfortunately, after the nine year war with the Palestinians and 2006 fight with Hizballah has proved that without dual responsibilities, whatever 'peace process' is fronted, is doomed to failure.
.
.
This problem was highlighted over the weekend when Egyptian foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit declared that even if Israel accedes to the demand to pull its citizens out of the West Bank, that the response from the Arab world would be that "the Arab states could accede to gradual normalization, each according to its own considerations."
.
.
In other words, Israel takes concrete steps for worthless maybe promises. 30+ years after Israel acceded to Egypt's demands, 15+ years after Israel acceded to Jordan's demands, 10 years after Israel pulled out of Lebanon to the UN's satisfaction, and three+ years after pulling every last Jew, living and dead, out of Gaza, Israel is still waiting for even the most basic of normalized relationships with an Arab and Muslim world that remains content to still waffle over whether its willing to accept the idea of an independent Jewish state.
.
.
Given the fact that Palestinian President Abu Mazen recently rejected the offer from former PM Olmert recently for practically everything the Palestinians are demanding, short of the Palestinian demand for the return of their people to Israel and total control of Jerusalem, one has to wonder what it will take to see any sort of trust building that the Arabs and Muslims are capable of offering. And that's the issue with the so-called moderates
.
.
Meanwhile, Joe Klein still cannot figure out a reasonable way to bring extremsists like HAMAS into the picture...but don't you worry, they HAVE to be brought in. And all it will take is just some of the usual 'arm twisting' on Israel. Given that HAMAS already has Gaza, one wonders just what's left for Israel to do to get HAMAS to move away from its stance of 'destroy Israel and kill all the Jews' to actual and real peace?
.
.
But that's not important, not when there are 'settlements' to remove and a security fence that has kept suicide bombers from Israeli busses, to tear down. -
21
"But that's not important, not when there are 'settlements' to remove and a security fence that has kept suicide bombers from Israeli buses, to tear down."
.
You hit it on the nail head. Exactamundo. Those are exactly the reasons why there is fighting. See my above comment on your blatant hypocrisy.
.
All the rest of your drivel is basically a case of the elephant standing on a chair screaming:
.
A mouse! A mouse! -
22
What happened to equality? If they want a Judenfrei West Bank how about a Muslim free Israel?
.
Hear that everybody? Guess Israel doesn't want to be the ME's *snort* "only democracy" anymore. -
23
neorationalist86: I know you probably won't show up here again, but thank you for being rational.
-
24
These guys are experts at trying to interweave some rabidly racist tendencies under the calmest clinical reasoning - couched in terms of implicit self-superiority of everything Israeli and the equally implicit dog-like nature they attach to the Palestinians.
.
Spend a couple years at Independent Argument BBC and you'll soon learn to recognize 'em... -
25
vicious:
.
What's even worse is that Israel can't just sniff loudly, claim everything's so unfair, and loudly proclaim they are quitting, and taking all of their marbles with them.
.
Real friendship, in a real political dialogue, would go much farther...
Most Popular »
- The Worst Live-Action Versions of Cartoon Classics
- CoCo Show a Go
- Idol Watch: Man Up, Boys!
- Lehman Examiner Finds Fraud, Probably
- Q&A: Legend of the Seeker's Bridget Regan on Corsets, True Love & Being a Badass
- ACORN Out of Ohio
- The Remains of Dalal Mughrabi
- Wake Up, Health Care Spectators - It's About to Get Interesting
- Gallup: Half Now Say Global Warming is Exaggerated
- Underplayed Story of the Day: Health Care Sticker Shock
- The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power
- Breast Pumping on Rise As Moms Choose Not to Breast-Feed
- Holly Graf: Was Female Navy Captain Victim of Sexism?
- Pope's Brother in German Catholic Church Abuse Scandal
- Karl Rove Memoir 'Courage' Defends Bush Legacy, Iraq War
- Greece: New Strike Over Austerity Plans Sparks Violence
- Glenn Beck: Fox Host Channels American Fear, Anger
- Study: Older Men Want Sex More Than Older Women Do
- New National Leprechaun Museum Opens in Dublin, Ireland
- Virginia Gay-Rights Battle Snares Governor McDonnell













RSS