Israel's Iran Game

Joe
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Did you perhaps miss this the other day?
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/04/21/The-President-and-King-Abdullah-on-Peace-in-the-Middle-East/
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Q I just want to follow on the previous question. You sent Senator Mitchell to the region to listen. Is he done with the listening now and -- because all the signals we have from the Israeli government basically that they are not in favor of the two-state solution. The opposition is strongly advocating that.
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So I wanted to ask also His Majesty, President Obama said that there is positive elements within the Arab Peace Initiative, but he didn't say what he disagree about. Can you tell us if you have noticed any tangible results, what the disagreement with that, and can the Arab Peace Initiative be the base now for a peace process in the Middle East?
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PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, first of all, I think it is very important to recognize that the Israelis now have had a government for a few weeks and it was a very complicated process for them to put a coalition together. So I think more listening needs to be done. They are going to have to formulate and I think solidify their position. So George Mitchell will continue to listen both to Arab partners, to the Palestinians, as well as the Israelis.
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But I agree that we can't talk forever; that at some point, steps have to be taken so that people can see progress on the ground. And that will be something that we will expect to take place in the coming months and we will help hopefully to drive a process where each side is willing to build confidence.
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I am a strong supporter of a two-state solution. I have articulated that publically and I will articulate that privately. And I think that there are a lot of Israelis who also believe in a two-state solution. Unfortunately, right now what we've seen not just in Israel but within the Palestinian Territories, among the Arab states, worldwide, is a profound cynicism about the possibility of any progress being made whatsoever.
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What we want to do is to step back from the abyss; to say, as hard as it is, as difficult as it may be, the prospect of peace still exists -- but it's going to require some hard choices, it's going to require resolution on the part of all the actors involved, and it's going to require that we -- we create some concrete steps that all parties can take that are evidence of that resolution. And the United States is going to deeply engage in this process to see if we can make progress.
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Now, ultimately, neither Jordan nor the United States can do this for the Israelis and the Palestinians. What we can do is create the conditions and the atmosphere and provide the help and assistance that facilitates an agreement. Ultimately they've got to make the decision that it is not in the interests of either the Palestinian people or the Israelis to perpetuate the kind of conflict that we've seen for decades now, in which generations of Palestinian and Israeli children are growing up insecure, in an atmosphere of hate.
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And my hope is, is that -- that the opportunity will be seized, but it's going to take some more work and we are committed to doing that work.

Joe
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Did you go to that link I posted the other day where Rahm Emanuel reportedly told Israeli officials that no matter who was prime minister there was going to be a two state solution in the next 4 years? If not I can post it again. I think you have to remember the kind of rough waters President Obama is treading here. Just yesterday Mitt Romney published an op ed in the National Review implying that Obama was insufficient in his support of Israel. We all know that the GOP tried to paint him that way during the campaign. He is walking that fine line right now that probably won't be helped by a big speech on the issue. I think his best option is to stay quiet on the issue and pressure them behind the scenes and only when they demonstratively buck him does he come out strong against them. If he does it now when Bibi hasn't really done anything (although he has made some troubling statements) I am sure he will be thrown under the bus by the Republicans here and Bibi over there. At the same time he has to hope Iran doesn't do anything really provocative between now and then that forces his hand. In short I think he needs to give George Mitchell a chance to do his job before Obama says something that might hurt the whole effort politically.

As for Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's latest anti-Israel rant seems to have increased the possibility that the Europeans will join us in raising economic sanctions if Iran doesn't fully comply with the IAEA non-proliferation regime. Obama's quiet diplomacy with the Russians and Chinese has increased the possibility that those countries will also send the message to Iran that a bomb-making program will have negative consequences.
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Joe, did the Chinese and Russians walk out of the "Racism" meeting in Belgium, when Ahmadinejad gave his glowing speech about the "Racist Jews"? I don't seem to remember that the Chinese or Russians walked out in protest.
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With that in mind, you are now trying to imply that "behind the scenes, Obama's quiet diplomacy with Russia and China will indeed offer up sanctions? You are either more insane than I thought previously or delusional. OR, completely, as they say here in Western Pennsylvania, "completely full of BULL $HIT".
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I am confident that the vast majority of Americans stands by, and are in favor of our ally, Israel. I do not think that Ahmadinejad or any of the Mullah's are well thought of by said majority. Obama is playing with fire. He will get burnt. When he does get burnt, I hope it is not a nuclear bomb burn that other innocent Americans also are burned by when Iran detonates a nuclear bomb over Washington, because Obama would not stop Iran now.

"(The only plausible use of an Iranian bomb would be as a deterrent against Israel's own nuclear weapons.)"
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Oh yeah, Joe. Easy to say with no skin in the game. I wouldn't risk the lives of millions on Joe Klein's ability to guess what Iran will do with a nuke.

"It's time for President Obama to make clear, in no uncertain terms, that the U.S. favors a Middle East peace settlement similar to the one proposed by Bill Clinton in 2000: no right of return for Palestinians, Jerusalem as a shared capital, the restoration (more or less) of the 1967 borders and an American peacekeeping force in the Jordan River Valley."
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Really, it's time for President Obama to attach concrete consequences for Israel if it fails to take dramatic steps to achieve that outcome, including the cutting of $billions in annual military aid. We've been bankrolling and otherwise aiding Israel's intransigence all along. What will another White House statement mean to Netanyahu, as long as we're still willing to arm him to do whatever he chooses?

http://israelpolicyforum.ngphost.com/blog/emanuel-says-obama-insists-implementing-two-state-solution-no-ifs-ands-or-buts
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Rahm Emanuel told an (unnamed) Jewish leader; "In the next four years there is going to be a permanent status arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians on the basis of two states for two peoples, and it doesn't matter to us at all who is prime minister."
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He also said that the United States will exert pressure to see that deal is put into place."Any treatment of the Iranian nuclear problem will be contingent upon progress in the negotiations and an Israeli withdrawal from West Bank territory," the paper reports Emanuel as saying. In other words, US sympathy for Israel's position vis a vis Iran depends on Israel's willingness to live up to its commitment to get out of the West Bank and permit the establishment of a Palestinian state there, in Gaza, and East Jerusalem.
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Yedioth also reports that Obama is conveying his displeasure with the new Israeli government in several ways. "US administration officials informed Netanyahu that President Obama will not be able to meet with him in early May, while the AIPAC conference is held in Washington.

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Its not earth shattering, but its a start. By the way, I think the WaPo article today reporting that Bibi said there won't be any peace efforts until Obama addresses Iran was a direct response to this report.

Joe says 'an American peacekeeping force in the Jordan River Valley'

More the things change more they remain same.What happened of apology to the world that now on america will try to make consensus.Good idea might be to do something about Pak which already has nukes in the hand of islamists than do all the drama with Iran.
Israel is more or less well equiped to protect itself, get over this obsession with mid-east.

I agree with Joe Klein. This endless hysterical whingeing coming from Israel concerning Iran is a ridiculous, purposeful distraction. The Israelis, with their 200 or likely more nuclear warheads understand perfectly well that the Persians are not going to guarantee the destruction of the Persian nation and the very existence of the ancient Persian civilisation in some vainglorious first strike on Israel (with the one or even ten nuclear weapons that Iran does not possess).

The Israelis have no practical military option against Iran since both the USA and the Iraqis have made it clear that Iraqi airspace is off limits to Israeli aircraft, and yes that fact irritates the Israelis. But no rational Israeli citizen can truly believe the Persians would launch a nuclear attack against Israel in the foreseeable future given the disparity between Israeli and Iranian nuclear capability. The Israeli leadership can however continue to make a marginally plausible political case that Israelis genuinely ARE frightened of the Iranians, and continue to scream it regularly and loudly as they proceed with requisitioning Palestinian land for incorporation into Greater Israel. As the Israelis fire up their bulldozers and construction equipment to create more Israeli Lebensraum on Palestinian land they yell Hey everybody -- look over there ! The Iranians ! The Iranians have a nuclear programme ! That means a nuclear bomb ! Maybe one hundred nuclear bombs ! And Ahmadi-Nejad has already threatened to "wipe Israel off the map !" (even though that "quote" is a complete fabrication). The world must do something about Iran !

See:

Wipe Israel off the Map - Rumour of the Century

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

SG,

I think you hit it right on the head that Obama has to work behind the scenes to pressure Israel regarding settlements. It is ironic that while the second Bush gave Sharon carte blanche to do what he wanted, the only president to actually do anything regarding settlements was the first Bush who threatened cutting off military aid until Shamir froze settlement building.

If Netanyahu is so concerns about Hamas and Hizbollah, he should institute policies which strengthen Palestinian moderates. At least he had enough sense to oppose the Gaza pullout, even if for the wrong reasons.

While his talk concerning the Palestinian economy is intriging, and maybe a backdoor way to help Abbas, he needs to be supportive or at least ambiguous about the two-state solution. Bibi is many things, but he has always been very smart, even if only a bit short sighted.

As the fluff on the left attempt to further distort past statements by Ahmadenijad, here is a report from 2006;
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"There are those who say that Ahmadinejad was misquoted. Yet in a June 11, 2006 analysis, New York Times deputy foreign editor Ethan Bronner concluded that: translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the (Iranian) foreign ministry disagree with (those who say he was misquoted). All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement refer to wiping Israel away."

At other times, Ahmadinejad has said:

"The real cure for the conflict is elimination of the Zionist regime."
"The way to peace in the Middle East is the destruction of Israel."
"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation."
"The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."
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http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Iran_A_Threat_to_Israel_and_the_World.asp
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Distorting the record of teh islamic extremists and attempting to say that they do not want the total destruction of Israel is an out and out LIE!

If Americans Knew What Israel Is Doing! VIDEO WAS CENSORED!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA

Israel violating the international law for decades:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1kt8qi0M-M

Christain presence at Palestine under the dirty Israeli occupation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOdR5JTH0-A

Israel holds the world record at the violated UN resolutions(35) WHILE IRAQ DIDN'T COMPLY WITH ONLY "ONE"(Details):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogxeTxD_kZ4

Any American who have been at Palestine knows that very well:(from 2003)

It was from 2007 UN envoy hits Israel 'aparatheid':
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6390755.stm

Some Israel crimes at Gaza from the recent offensive:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7831588.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7848768.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817926.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7843307.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7905320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7917326.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7926413.stm

Support Free Palestine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKQqItZu4Is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5Cay6GUkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y

Free Palestine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKQqItZu4Is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5Cay6GUkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y

"It's time for President Obama to make clear, in no uncertain terms, that the U.S. favors a Middle East peace settlement similar to the one proposed by Bill Clinton in 2000: no right of return for Palestinians, Jerusalem as a shared capital, the restoration (more or less) of the 1967 borders and an American peacekeeping force in the Jordan River Valley."
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The 2000 proposal "more or less" restored the 1967 borders, but the "less" included a lot of major roads, essentially breaking up Palestine into little chunks and totally undermining any idea of Palestine as an independent nation.

Rabbi against Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeaZuj7ruwM

The conflict in the Middle East is very edgy. It is certain that the Iranian president have said many outrageous remarks about Israel. However, the Israeli foreign minister, Lieberman, have said things that are equally outrageous about the Palestinians.
While Israel continues building illegal settlement in the West Bank, humiliating Palestinians, and driving them to extremism, the world is too busy condemning what the Iranian president said. He can say all he wants. What should be condemned is the Israeli oppression and occupation because that's what really matter. Iran doesn't have the technical ability or the motive to destroy Israel. Ahmedinajed's calls are off color jokes. However, spreading settlements illegally over the West Bank that suck most of the resources leaving the Palestinians in poverty is serious. It is a serious moral issue.
Every illegal settlement built in the West Bank pushes the Palestinian state further away, and makes a two states solution more unlikely to happen. If president Obama really believes in a two states solution, he should explicitly ask Israel to stop settling in the West Bank, and treat Palestinian equally as the Jews.
A military strike cannot protect Israel from Iran. It will only raise fundamentalism in the region, and make Israel more unsafe. Some Arab regimes would support Israel over Iran, but the Arab population would support the devil over Israel. Any war between Israel and Iran would give power to Islamic and Arab nationalist sanctions that would be able to overturn their governments, and attack Israel.
Only peace can protect Israel. The Arab peace plan is very clear, and president Obama himself supported it. Land for peace, when Israel give the Palestinians their land and legitimate rights, the Israeli flag will rise in every Arabic capital. Then, Iran and other radical sanctions will have no legitimate cause to hate Israel, and calls for its destruction will be out of place, and have no impact in the Muslim world.
However, our government is lying to Israel, and contradicting itself. We should send a clear strong message to Israel that peace is the only way to security. If we really support a two states solution, we should put pressure on Israel to achieve such a solution.

Nothing will happen. Israel has the "dirt" on Obama & his backers. They were ready for him.

Anybody hear about the Iranians calling Elie Wiesel a Zionazi today? (or was it yesterday...?)

Exposing Israel (MUST SEE!)(it is a response to the zionist propaganda which makes Palestinians look bad but they forgot that it is a response to the Israeli behaviour):

As for Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's latest anti-Israel rant seems to have increased the possibility that the Europeans will join us in raising economic sanctions if Iran doesn't fully comply with the IAEA non-proliferation regime

Why would you use the words "JOIN US?". I thought you're a journalist and are supposed to be neutral in articulating issues. The way you put it here leaves no doubt that you're advocating a position by the U.S. government. I think journalists should not immerse themselves in disputes. They should report events as they are and if they're to be analytical in their reporting a flair of objectiveness is needed.

I detest Ahminejad myself because he denies his people freedoms that he wants powerful nations to accord him. But on the issue of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he sometimes has a point when he says Palestinians should not be allowed to suffer for the sake of Israel. We all know how the state of Israel came into being. This, however, is not an excuse for somebody to call for the wiping off the map the state of Israel. Israel better be advised not to continue colonilizing the Palestinians. And is there any semblance of truth when somebody accuses Israel of being a racist state? Well, I know many would not stand up to say yes because of potential repercussions.

Y'know, Joe:
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I've never liked what Israel has done with respect to the Palestinians, and I still don't.
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The problem is, that Ahmadinejad keeps keeps shooting his own country in the foot.
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I have a hunch that if he were to just shut up, and let events speak for themselves, a lot more would get done that is a lot more even handed.
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I've been down on Lieberman, but Amadinejad is cut from the same cloth, and having no brain of his own, he will waste the opportunity to be had in letting Lieberman score a few 'own goals' himself.
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This is just plain stupid!

[...] a better military intelligence expert than anyone in Israel, judging by his April 22 blog post on "Israel's Iran Game" at the magazine's Swampland blog (emphasis mine): I have no doubt that Israel [...]