Latest Column

Welcome Back To OBAMASTAN, Say Joe!
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http://www.newsok.com/okc-officer-pulls-man-over-for-anti-obama-sign-on-vehicle/article/3347038?custom_click=headlines_widget

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123500260310017735.html

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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihA0Z5ybW84SLeY3NQbodRanP0mwD96EH44G3

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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j44ku9zUM9IEdkkoWbIYStDVE6SwD96EH4JO0

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= JIHAD ACCOMPLISHED =

I am familiar with the doings in Doha and wonder if you can do a specific post with details on how the Arabs are lining up especially in their views on Iran. On a personal note: I was in Malaysia when Anwar Ibrahim was charged and railroaded into prison (and I know him personally having met with him regularly when he was Minister if Finance). His problem has always been that he is less than tactful in holding his own people to account and was seen as "pro-American". Did not help him. The Malaysian judiciary was in the PM's pocket then.

Joe Klein
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Since some commenters seem alarmed at the level of vitriol I will try to put forth my questions as non threateningly as possible.
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1. Why did you feel the need to try to make fun of Joe Biden in an otherwise "serious" article. Here is the relevant part I am talking about.
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The clearest statement of American intent came from Vice President Joe Biden in Munich, in a speech so important that Biden read it word for word, without Bidenic huzzahs — he didn't say, for example, "Vladimir Putin, Lord love 'im!" He did say quietly startling things like "We will listen. We will consult." And "We will strive to act preventively, not pre-emptively." And "America will act aggressively against climate change." He offered an unclenched fist to Iran and a willingness to push "the reset button" with Russia.

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Now I have to ask is Joe Biden now the Al Gore of 2009? Here is the same paragraph without the over reach for snark.
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The clearest statement of American intent came from Vice President Joe Biden in Munich, in a speech so important that Biden read it word for word. He said quietly startling things like "We will listen. We will consult." And "We will strive to act preventively, not pre-emptively." And "America will act aggressively against climate change." He offered an unclenched fist to Iran and a willingness to push "the reset button" with Russia.

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Now you still portray the same thoughts just without the need to try to kick the guy again. Joe Biden is a gaffe machine, we get it. But to put gaffes in his mouth is a big much don't you think?
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2. You referred to the German Defense Minister Franz Josef Jung as a "Gandhian archetype" who "gave a ridiculously optimistic report about progress in Afghanistan." However the BBC characterized his report thusly.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7233971.stm
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German Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung had already announced that Germany would send an additional 200 troops as a quick reaction force to help in the north, which could also in theory be called upon to help Nato allies in need in the south.
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But he made it clear that Germany was not able to deploy combat troops to the south.
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"Within Nato, we have agreed on a reasonable share-out of tasks, which in my view is very wise," said Mr Jung in Vilnius. "I think our contribution in Afghanistan is sufficient."

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Then they quoted a spokesman of the German Defense Ministry who further clarified.
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"Our allies might think we should do more in Afghanistan, but our message is that we are already the third largest troop-contributing nation and we are doing other things for the whole of Afghanistan," he said.

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And in a different article the BBC said this about his report
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7877505.stm
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However, German Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung, whose country is a major troop contributor in Afghanistan, insisted that civil reconstruction was as important as the military effort.

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So I am wondering if you can amplify what Jung said that was ridiculously optomistic. I am not saying he didn't say anything that could be characterized that way, I am just asking for clarification so we can all see if WE would characterize it that way.
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Now these are the questions I have of your article and I don't think I projected any ill will towards you in asking them. So whenever you get a chance I am hoping for a response.

The last 2 paragraphs shouldn't be blockquoted

SG, you not only immensely improved what JK wrote, but you did it with total class. I would've glossed over what he wrote with a trace of annoyance without knowing exactly why. Many thanks.
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I have to sign off before the IT folks track me down and flog me but just wanted to say that the difference between your comment and hulagate's shows why some comments are read, re-read, and read again and why others are scrolled-by.

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Biden:

"We will listen. We will dissect. We will genuflect. We will regale. We will plagiarize. We will obfuscate. We will get free train fare to almost Scranton on some sorry sack's tax dime because I'm Joe Freakin Biden and I'm that good..."

Wake us when NATO finds their missing balls.

German Defense Ministry = Petra Kelley Fan Club

In a word, USELESS.

I think it's a pretty good column, illustrating that a reasonable America is a game-changer.
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Also, it seems to me indisputable that sgwhiteinfla's comment adds immeasurably to a reader's understanding of what's going on.
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The original column engaged in two notable rhetorical flights of fancy-- re: Biden and Jung-- and sgwhite's comment brings both of them back down to reality. Great, great comment.

Nice job, sgw.

In light of the recent admonishments for being overly personal in our dismissal of certain posts -- this was a truly elegant critique of the propensity of some swamplanders to substitute what they think is entertaining banter for actual reporting.
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JK - While I am a fan of the good one liner, humor requires an unexpected truth to be revealing, relevant, and reformative.

The elegant critique belongs to SG not me.

Good column, and I couldn't help but hope, as I was reading it, that the world's leaders might deal with Obama more constructively than this country's Republicans, (who seem increasingly intent on taking down this President and the rest of us with them. I can only think they all have enough money that they don't think they will possibly end up in serious trouble if the economy tanks.)

Sorry to waste time with a me too, but sgw's comment was really edifying and I very much appreciate it. My understanding of the situation was dramatically enhanced.

Yall have got to stop this, you have me over here blushing for real. But thanks for the props.

Let me get this straight. Vice President Biden makes a statement to the effect of "we will think before we act," and this is interpreted as a "clarion statement of international sanity" by you, Mr. Klein? There was nothing that Biden said that could possibly warrant your overwrought phrasing. In fact, I'm pretty sure that your knowing exaggerations of the Bush years has actually become reality in your head. (in that case, at least, your prose about everything Obama would make sense)
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Obama has barely stepped out of the gate in his presidency. There's really nothing to say. Yes, the world is puzzled...that makes sense, because the world has to wait for the newest President to actually do anything of lasting substance. If it was McCain, they'd still be guessing at this point. I know it's your job to write something about the Washington think tank scene, but can you please write something that means more?

Me three. Thanks sg. I was thinking along these lines as I read the piece, but I would not have expressed it so well.

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JK: ..without Bidenic huzzahs — he didn't say, for example, "Vladimir Putin, Lord love 'im!"
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Joe, Biden is more than capable of being serious. Did you get him confused with Sarah Palin, maybe?
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The article contains a mild ragging of Biden, yes, but it serves to accentuate the sea change in America's approach to diplomacy and foreign policy that comes with the changing of Presidential administrations. Overall, it's a decent snapshot of what's happening on the foreign policy front and what it might mean to the world. Not bad, Joe.

I have to ask is Joe Biden now the Al Gore of 2009?...Joe Biden is a gaffe machine, we get it. But to put gaffes in his mouth is a big much don't you think?
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sgwhiteinfla:
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Excellent point.
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Joe Klein:
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Do you insert these irrelevant Village-isms out of sheer habit, or do you do so because you believe that appeals to the Beltway's commonly accepted narratives enhance the credibility of your reporting?
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If it's for the latter reason, you need to understand that this is highly counter-productive. You see, The Disconnect between your community's Conventional Wisdom and us regular Americans' perspectives on just about everything is so wide these days that these sorts of "I'll just throw that in there so they all know I'm an insider..." appeals don't enhance your credibility with us atll --they detract from it.
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So either try a bit harder to suppress the same tic that was so shamefully on display during campaign 2000, or please get the hint that sticking to the Village personality narrative gets you far more looks of incredulous disgust than gape-mouthed nods from us rubes in 2009, Joe Klein.

Shameless promo
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Dna Froomkin with at Virtually Speaking tonight. His tweet:
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whitehousewatch Froomkin in Second Life: Hey, who's that over there? It's me. Well, virtual me. That's my Second Life avatar.. http://tinyurl.com/cxx3gd

I'm one of those commenters (sic) who occasionally posts complaints about tone and props to sgw for his insightful and respectful critique of Klein's essay. Now I don't know if it will do any better to get a response out of Klein than the other, more vitriolic... dare I say troll-like... complaints (see sz), but at least it elevates the debate above name calling.
Bravo sgw, bravo.

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Oh, and I'd like to echo SG's earlier point...

"So I am wondering if you can amplify what Jung said that was ridiculously optimistic."

I'd find that interesting.
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I realize that in the dead-tree world, there's such a thing as available column inches, but elaborating on why you feel that way would be informative. You could even do it, say, in an online blog, where available space is not as much of a consideration.

We all agree...
SG wins not only the thread but the post itself!
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Yesterday I was defending JK's tendency to think with his gut, today I won't do so. His description of the European's seem to operate under the assumption that there is a certain fixed amount of Warmaking that is necessary in Afghanistan and that the only question is who is to do it. I reject the premise.
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The idea that considering foriegn policy holistically and actually noting how things are interconnected slows reaction time and can be construed negatively is a poisonous one, and I think that deep-down, Joe realizes this. But the notion that there is something noble about shooting from the hip with inadequate information is a pervasive one, and it will be difficult to get past the power of that particular myth.

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jayackroyd: Shameless promo..Dan Froomkin with at Virtually Speaking tonight.
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heh. Froomkin's avatar looks like a younger, Westernized Osama Bin Laden.