A blog about politics.

What is Mike Huckabee Talking About?

Mike Huckabee says the stimulus bill is "anti-religion." The Christian Coalition calls it "an attack on people of faith." The Traditional Values declares that the economic package "stimulates anti-Christian bigotry." My goodness. Maybe the devil really is in the details.

Or...maybe this is a classic case of social conservatives ginning up yet another false charge of anti-Christian bigotry in order to avoid coming up with a legitimate reason to oppose the stimulus bill. Let's look at what we're really talking about here.

The provision that has the Huckabee gang all atwitter would prevent the use of federal construction funds for college facilities used primarily for religious purposes. In other words, you can't take federal money and use it to build a chapel on your campus. It does not do...well, pretty much everything Senator Jim DeMint claimed it would:

"[It] would make sure students could never talk openly and honestly about their faith ... what this means is that students can't meet together in their dorms if that dorm has been repaired with federal money and have a prayer group or a Bible study. They can't get together in their student centers. They can't have a commencement service where a speaker talks about their personal faith... Classes on world religions and religious history, academic studies of religious texts could be banned"

Now, that's just ridiculous--and unabashedly disingenuous, to boot. Again, the provision would prevent the use of federal funds for the construction of religious facilities. That's been federal law for decades and has to be reiterated every time monies for school construction are approved.

Of course, while social conservatives have been crying wolf about this higher ed construction provision, they've largely ignored a provision in the House version of the bill (the Senate version largely stripped out school construction funding and the issue is at the crux of negotiations between the two chambers) that didn't include parochial and other nonpublic schools in the "green schools" initiative that allocates money for schools to modernize. What their protest has done is conflate the two issues for many congressional staffers, some of whom have hardened their opposition to allowing parochial schools to access the modernization funds. Way to go, Huckabee Gang.

Says one religious lobbyist advocating for an expansion of the green schools provision: "The Traditional Values crowd doesn't have the material interests of religious higher education institutions in mind. They're just trying to put points on the board. They're not interested in the green schools issue because it's not something you can put in a direct mail piece. There wasn't any language in the House bill that explicitly said parochial schools can't get this money. But the higher ed section had to clarify that you can't use this money to build a chapel. So they're taking that and running with it."

What's most maddening is that the people getting the mobilization alerts and emails from the Christian Coalitions of the world are getting squeezed under the weight of the collapsing economy. There are legitimate arguments to be made that this stimulus package may not be the solution they need. But instead of making those arguments, the Huckabee Gang would rather scare folks with false claims of bigotry and discrimination. WWJD? Hell, no.

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  • 1

    Abortion On Demand?

    = THAT'S MY BOMA! =

  • 2

    COMPLETE LIST OF OBONGO'S BROKEN PROMISES...

    http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda/

    Some change, That One.

    Move On indeed.

  • 3

    DNFTT.
    -
    They need to whip the wingnuts into a frenzy Amy, you already know this. There is no deep analysis, all this is is trying to ensure Obama is a failure so the Reps can get back into power. That's it. Nothing more to see here.

  • 4

    Skippy Obama has told more lies and broken more promises in just 3 long weeks, than the Bush 41 & 43 admins combined over 12 YEARS.

    = MOOP ACCOMPLISHED =

  • 5

    Amy, this is why it is hard for democrats to work with your fellow evangelicals. The leadership is corrupt, rotten to the core, and gives not a damn about their followers interests.

  • 6

    http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda/

    The lies of Obama and Biden deserve a special prosecutor.

    Anyone have Ken Starr's office number?

  • 7

    yutsano –

    It's also how they get contributions to pay their own "expenses" for talking trash and raising more coin – as opposed to actually contributing to the GDP. It's their full-time gig, and they don't really care that much who wins or loses any election.
    .
    Amy –
    It looks like you're starting to get it. Now you just need to acknowledge this tactic is the rule rather than the exception among the pols "of faith."

  • 8

    What prevents the Mike Huckabees and Christian Coalition, et al from talking about God's love and Jesus Christ? They use the word religion then talk about anything but.
    .
    Matthew 22:21
    .
    Ephesians 4:29
    .
    Romans 2:24

  • 9

    Hurry up Rapture and happen so we can get these insane people off this planet.

    Ever consider that perhaps the Religious types back in the early times simply misread the scriptures or picked up the wrong book and never realized that the Rapture is supposed to cleanse the Earth by gathering up all the crazies! Wouldn't that be a hoot!!!! Jesus is coming back to get the crazies. Bet Huckabee is at the top of his list.

  • 10

    Huckabee is not the issue.

    The lies of Obama and Biden IS the issue.

  • 11

    what this means is that students can't meet together in their dorms if that dorm has been repaired with federal money and have a prayer group or a Bible study
    .
    This is the stupidest f--king thing I've ever heard in my life.
    .
    AS - thank you for pointing this out and for calling out Mike Huckabee as making the world worse for everyone.

  • 12

    that's just ridiculous--and unabashedly disingenuous
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    That's your modern GOP, and its minions in the pseudoreligion-politics complex. Put it in the print version, please.
    -
    A fine post, thanks for flagging this, I hadn't seen it anywhere else.

  • 13

    She's improving Elvis, I'm giving her mad props for it. Maybe she just needed to get her blogging legs. Then again this is right up her alley.
    -
    I wonder if we can get Hula to hyperventilate after the recovery bill passes.

  • 14

    Great post Amy. You've gotten a lot of grief from the commenters here but, as JNS also found, give us obscure but relevant, factual, and interesting information and we'll be happy. For a bit. Until you post something we don't like. :)
    .
    It also appears that we found one of Hulagate's buttons. Go Amy.

  • 15

    Thank you Amy. You're in danger of being accused of some serious journalism. Huckabee isn't really driving center-right anymore. He's kind of just smashing into the guardrail over and over again and bouncing into traffic. There's nothing wrong with being an evangelical or being an atheist if the truth and honesty remain the focus. Mike strikes me as the type that examines every piece of toast and pancake for images of Jesus or Mary before he takes a bite though. Sincere, but crazy as hell.

  • 16

    My theory: As a theocon, Huckabee's got to eat a s**t sandwich and prove he's on board with the money cons:
    .
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/062703.php

  • 17

    Let's not forget the standard christian fundamentalist lie that you can't carry a bible into a public school.
    .
    Great post.
    .
    As to the grief AS has suffered, I have watched it with disgust and wonder at the trivialities that sometimes set off the Swamp Regulars vitriolic feeding frenzies. Please give it a rest, for AS, MS, JK and every other Time blogger that may rub you the wrong way slightly. KT seems to be the only one who holds any respect here.

  • 18

    They already sent Coulterbot 3000 after him. She will terminate him with the vicelike grip of her iron hooha if he doesn't fully prostrate himself before Mammon:
    http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Coulter_Huckabee_clash_over_support_for_0112.html

  • 19

    Amy Sullivan:
    .
    Says one religious lobbyist...
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    Whether I agree with the substance of your post or not, intellectual honesty forces me to ask you:
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    Why can't you get that "religious lobbyist" on the record with their claims?
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    Why must this person's identity be shrouded in mystery?
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    Why can't this person's claim to know the real motives behind "The Traditional Values crowd" be evaluated in light of their, you know, job as a lobbyist?
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    I'd really love to be contributing with my own version "Rah, rah Amy! Those prominent social conservatives sure are dishonest!", but I know exactly what I'd be complaining about if your post's message were running counter to my values. I'd be criticizing you for this very problem.
    .
    The standards of journalism have changed a bit, Amy Sullivan.
    .
    Good journalism doesn't merely make assertions about a "provision that has the Huckabee gang all atwitter" without linking to or providing an accurate quote of the legislation in question.
    .
    Good journalism doesn't merely quote an un-named source speaking to the thoughts of other people.
    .
    Good journalism doesn't proclaim "Let's look at what we're really talking about here." and then not actually let the reader look at what we're really talking about here.
    .
    My politics would love to take you at your word, Amy Sullivan, and get all set to rail against Jim DeMint for his rank dishonesty, but my integrity does not allow it, given that I only have your unsupported claim that the legislation in question "does not do...well, pretty much everything Senator Jim DeMint claimed it would".
    .
    How am I supposed to know how it is exactly that you know with total accuracy that Jim DeMint is lying or an ignoramus or both? Like many commenters here, I'd certainly be likely to believe that this is the case, but if all I have to go on is a (literally) bold assertion that "It does not", then that's simply not good enough --even when it comes to people who I do not like and whose ideology and values I vigorously oppose.
    .
    Unfortunately, that's the only intellectually honest response I can make to this post, Amy Sullivan. My values demand that I hold this piece of yours to the same standard I'd impose upon another with which I strenuously disagreed.
    .
    Please provide links or quotes to the sources that prove claims like "social conservatives have been crying wolf about this higher ed construction provision", or expect the same criticism that Joe Klein so richly deserved for his idiotic diatribes against "civil liberties extremists" that were based on completely false descriptions of a House FISA bill.
    .
    Please support your claims with facts, Amy Sullivan.
    .
    That is the least we can expect from journalists in a post-Saddam's WMD world.
    .
    Thank you in advance for reading and considering this criticism.

  • 20

    it's not something you can put in a direct mail piece.
    .
    Now once you get that none of this is about anything except generating outrage and revenue, you understand why they rail against abortion, but do nothing about, make false claims about the Fairness Doctrine, and in general just make sh!t up that ticks people off, then you understand how it works.
    .
    It astounds me that the savvy Beltway journalists are so easily gamed.

  • 21

    SZ, she did provide links. Maybe not as many as you would have liked, but enough to support everybody's previous knowledge of the fundamentalist line (on both sides of that line) to make this a good blog post.

  • 22

    formerlyjames: Problem is SZ likes to bring a microscope to every argument and look for the pimples on a gnat's Azz and than hollers out... "defend it!" Sort of like getting lost in the forest for the trees.

  • 23

    formerlyjames:
    .
    I'm sorry, I should have made it more clear that I meant links to sources citing the provisions in question.
    .
    She's only provided links to statements by the people who she claims are proven wrong about this knowledge she has about what's in the proposed legislation.
    .
    My criticism with respect to the un-named lobbyist quoted in post should be clear, I hope.

  • 24

    SZ, does Amy need to hold your hand? Yeah it probably would have been nice if she had included the link to DeMint saying this ON THE SENATE FLOOR, but it's pretty easy to put this quote into Google (or your search engine of choice) and find it for yourself. Also, she gave three links to the wolf crying at the beginning of the post, trusting that her reader could follow a relatively simple argument all the way through a short blog post. Finally, from what I can remember from my journalism class in high school the quote from the religious lobbyist is what is known as a "blind quote," which is often mandated by the source. Most likely because it's not good business for a religious lobbyist to criticize a demi-god (pun intended) like Huckabee. Personally I think its nice to take a peek behind the curtain of religious lobbying. Is it really that important that we know the identity of the specific religious lobbyist? Besides, would that even mean anything to the majority of her readers? I'm not keeping a running tally of religious lobbyists, and doubt that many people are.
    Good grief...

  • 25

    Just to add:
    .
    An example would be "...the provision would prevent the use of federal funds for the construction of religious facilities..."
    .
    It's not nit-picking or being focused on the microscopic to ask the person making the argument "How do you know that? Were you just told that by somebody else?".
    .
    It's up to us to examine that claim in light of a citation of the provision in question, otherwise we're no more capable of making good judgment than if somebody just told us via some website that "Senator Jim DeMint, Republican from South Carolina, has said that there is a provision in Barack Obama's stimulus legislation which is 'an attack on people of faith.'".
    .
    The people who read that website have as much actual information about the bill as we do from Amy Sullivan's post, unfortunately.
    .
    It's not "forest for the trees" to expect to be treated with more brains than the members of the Christian Coalition, unless the "forest" is all about winning politically, and not holding the posters here to better standards than Tony Perkin's crowd deserves.

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