Comments on: The Loser Now Will Be Later To Win

By: toddandincharge

toddandincharge — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:33:40 +0000

MS, thanks for responding. Cosby's a straw man -- yes I agree, Franken is not Howdy-Doody either.
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I understand you believe your post was intended to praise Franken, yet in order to make a point you both exaggerated his flirtation with subversive countercultural shock humor (we know all good humor is subversive anyways), and employed terms ("intellectual terrorist") that distracted from your presumed, somewhat strained point.
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I agree in the 70s Franken was part of the TV "drug humor" generally, in a tepid, fang-free way that never approached
Carlin or Pryor, yet the "constancy" that you point too simply is not there. In fact, Franken evolved into an American humorist and wit, with fairly substantive ideas on a range of policy points if you ever listened to him or read him at any length.
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At this point you surely must know it's not enough to simply attempt to praise someone you assume your readers must like. You must also be intellectually honest, accurate, and write in such a way as to not be inflammatory or disingenuous. I know you will never admit this, but somewhere deep down you must agree it's a cop-out to simply blame the "combative" internet for the remarkably detailed and frequent criticism of your opinions.

By: shepherdwong

shepherdwong — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:43:34 +0000

I don't mean to be a pr*ck, Michael but for those of us who have been conversing in this medium for a long time, the "but everyone's so mean" dismissal is really infuriating. First off, in case you didn't get the memo, this format is all about feedback and criticism. Also, a lot of the criticism I read on your posts is quite thoughtful and smart, you should be grateful and flattered that smart people take time to tell you what they think about what you write. If it all just sounds like partisan or shallow harping, you have too thin a skin for the political blogosphere or, possibly, your critics are more thoughtful and smarter than you. . The whole "civility" thing is just a dodge for you guys not doing your jobs anyway, or didn't you get that memo either?

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By: shepherdwong

shepherdwong — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:27:02 +0000

"The political internet discussion is so combative that every piece of writing is quickly categorized as either pro or con, an example of right wing hackery or left wing hackery, bad journalism or good journalism, etc." . I think that your real complaint is that your writing is "quickly categorized" as either true or untrue and that doesn't always work out well for you. Or sometimes, as in this thesis: "[b]ut I also find it hard to believe that he will be able to do the job entirely straight, with the same soulless formality that is Congressional convention," it gets quickly categorized as completely useless or irrelevant. Go figure.

By: 53_3

53_3 — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:17:37 +0000

An intellectual terrorist? . Wow, MS. This takes the cake. You are traipsing awfully close to that moral ditch marked "mind control", aren't you...

By: 53_3

53_3 — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:14:42 +0000

At least he ain't Rush Limbaugh, the oxy-addled purveyor of racial hatred. And, MS, I might point this out: . "...which climaxes with a gorilla raping a man..." . But. Butt! . At least he's not one of those Republicans raping the treasury...

By: shepherdwong

shepherdwong — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:00:41 +0000

"Franken has spent his life as a sort of intellectual terrorist, a rebel in open war with the mores and power structures of America. With perhaps one or two exceptions, he has done a brilliant and noble job. Free nations need performers who will mess with our heads." . And yet you left off the list of his accomplishments the books he's authored on politics and the media (hmmmm), at least one of which, Lies And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, was a #1 New York Times bestseller. If you can't tell from the title, in one book he revealed more truth about the lies being perpetrated on the public than you and all of your peers have for the past 30 years. For that alone, he deserves his seat in the Senate, at the very least, over the miserable liar Norm Coleman.

By: michaelscherer

michaelscherer — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:58:05 +0000

yes i have considered that. But am not convinced.

By: Paul-no not that one

Paul-no not that one — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:50:06 +0000

"this is the latest in a long line of comment threads where I am kind of shocked by how much you all just miss the point of what I mean."
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If there is a long line of threads where so many people miss your point it may have something to do with your writing.

By: michaelscherer

michaelscherer — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:25:54 +0000

Franken is far more Carlin than Cosby, Todd. One more comment: the debate over the word terrorist aside (i used the word in a complimentary fashion, though I understand the critique) this is the latest in a long line of comment threads where I am kind of shocked by how much you all just miss the point of what I mean. I am praising Franken as a great intellect (albeit a subversive one) who will make a welcome addition to the soulless senate. (Funny, but i also felt this happening in the campaign too. Like when I wrote about lil wayne and Obama; many assumed I was attacking Obama, even though I was, in fact, praising lil wayne.) I think this has something to do with the context: The political internet discussion is so combative that every piece of writing is quickly categorized as either pro or con, an example of right wing hackery or left wing hackery, bad journalism or good journalism, etc. It doesn't much matter if something doesn't fit neatly into these combative categories. People read as if everything does.