Underplayed Story of the Day

while I agree that it was underplayed, double posting the same story is now how one compensates...

as to the substance of the piece, it reads like propaganda from Bush administration officials who don't want Guantanamo shut down.

Shutting down Guantanamo does not require resolution of all outstanding issues before it happens. Nor are the issues all that complicated.

1) Transfer authority for trying those who the US asserts have acted illegally to the International Criminal Court.

2) Return all others to the country they were first detained in.

3) In the case of Afghanistan and Iraq, those whom the US believes will engage in hostilities if released should be detained in those nations, but given POW status.

Given that there are difficulties shutting Guantanamo down, they pale in comparison to the problems caused by keeping it open:
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"The number-one reason foreign fighters gave for coming to Iraq to fight is the torture and abuse that occurred at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. The majority of suicide bombings are carried out by foreign fighters who volunteered and came to Iraq with this motivation. Consequently it is clear that at least hundreds but more likely thousands of American lives (not to count Iraqi civilian deaths) are linked directly to the policy decision to introduce the torture and abuse of prisoners as accepted tactics. Americans have died from terrorist attacks since 9/11; those Americans just happen to be American soldiers. This is not simply my view -- it is widely held among senior officers in the U.S. military today. Alberto Mora, who served as General Counsel of the Navy under Donald Rumsfeld, testified to the Senate Armed Services Committee in June 2008 that "U.S. flag-rank officers maintain that the first and second identifiable causes of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq -- as judged by their effectiveness in recruiting insurgent fighters into combat -- are, respectively the symbols of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo." We owe it to our troops to protect them from terrorist attacks by not conducting torture and we owe it to our forefathers to uphold the American principles that they passed down to us."

pluk: as to the substance of the piece, it reads like propaganda from Bush administration officials who don't want Guantanamo shut down. Given that the Bush administration lies like they breath, I honestly don't understand why anyone listens to them at all, or why journalists don't flag anything coming from them with a "Warning: Lying Liars." Atrios has a related point:
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They lied. Hundreds of thousands of people died. Then they lied about lying. How they live with themselves I do not know. How the Villagers get more upset about, say, John Edwards' big house than this stuff I do not know.
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KT, thanks for the double posting.

Double Post - a rare opportunity to correct my spellin errors!
Who may not want terrorist suspects housed in prisons in their areas.

My last post on the other thread made reference to believing in magic. This thread provides an example of the precise sort of thinking under discussion. What is a 'terrorist suspect' and how does he differ from other murderers? The correct answer is of course 'not at all' but we have actually attributed magical powers to the word 'terrorist'. To those of us who don't have the same visceral reaction that some do to the images the word evokes, it seems very odd and at times extremely frustrating. We are after all, discussing human beings

Note that this has been going on a long time. In many circles simply invoking the word 'terrorist' erases all vestiges of humanity. Let alone the possibility of innocence.

OT, but important. Via TPM: The President will announce his plan to "rescue" U.S. automakers at 9 a.m. ET.
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Anyone willing to give odds that he will make common cause with the southern Repugs and call for deeper cuts in auto worker pay, that he'll mention the $73/hr lie, and that he'll call for a bankruptcy proceeding?

PD: In many circles simply invoking the word 'terrorist' erases all vestiges of humanity. Let alone the possibility of innocence. Sort of like Reagan's AG Edwin Meese saying that anyone picked up for a crime, even if innocent of that crime, were probably guilty of something so it was ok to hold them?.

Anyone willing to give odds that he will make common cause with the southern Repugs and call for deeper cuts in auto worker pay, that he'll mention the $73/hr lie, and that he'll call for a bankruptcy proceeding?
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not only that, but I'll give odd that the media will not correct the $73/hr lie.

All that needs to be done at this point is for Obama to say "We're going to rescue the auto companies, and any bank that refuses to provide them with bridge loans between now and the time our administration takes office will be ineligible for any fiscal bailout money once we're in office -- in other words, the auto companies WILL be saved, but if I were an investor in a bank that refused to provide them with a loan, I'd sell my stock pronto.

Isn't this basically an Obama initiative, rather than a move of the Bush administration? Since Gates will be staying on it makes sense for him to be working out the details of this shut down so it can happen as soon as possible after Obama takes office.

kathy, I think it is also a Gates' initiative. I understand that Gates, very early on, tried to get the Bush administration to support closing down Guantanamo for many of the reason's I noted above (#3). I would even suggest that one of the reasons Gates is staying on is to accomplish this closure.

Remarkably, Bush is doing the honorable thing. It's so unlike him that I'm shocked. Auto Makers to Get $17.4 Billion

Remarkably, Bush is doing the honorable thing..

He did say he would prefer not to be remembered as WORSE than Hoover...

Just transfer custody of half each to Bush and Cheney after January 20th. It's their problem let them shelter and care for them. Oh yeah, give the detainees shoes so they can play pitch and catch with Bush and Cheney.

Better yet go to

http://sockandawe.com/

Kathy - I think it is definitely an Obama move, not a Bush move - no doubt.

"WASHINGTON — The Defense Department is drawing up plans to close the Guantanamo Bay military prison IN ANTICIPATION that one of President-elect Barack Obama's first acts will be ordering the closure of the detention center associated with the abuse of terror suspects."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/58143.html

New underplayed story of the day:

Bristol Palin's future mother in law arrested on drug charges. Interesting!! Very interesting. And the son wasn't involved and doing drugs? And Bristol wasn't involved and doing drugs? In a small community like Wasulla, Gov. Palin was not aware of this even through perhaps rumors? This is a story that has very interesting ramifications for dear Sarah.

I'm with newfloridian @#13. Better yet give them each a million dollars and the opportunity to start fresh in this country.

newfloridian -- This is excellent news for the Palin presidenial campaign.

This is rich: the US does not want to sent detainess back to those countries where they might/will be(?) tortured. Very rich indeed.

McClatchy's piece on the doings in Alaska - looks like Republican values are alive and well. Will the Governor pardon Bristol's Mum-in-law? Or will there be well publicised visits to prison? It will be al about redemption.

It's not so much the shutting down of Guantanamo, it is whether the US federal justice system, profoundly corrupted by the bushies, has the capability and the credibility to deal with prisoners where the only "evidence" against them has been obtained by torture. Of course, they dealt with Jose Padilla, who had been tortured into insanity, but I suspect that the Obama administration will have a more difficult time and credibility problem in dealing with these prisoners domestically. The bushies knew that they could keep the press on a tight leash with respect to Padilla. It's now the "job" of the press to hold Obama "accountable" where during the Bush years their job was to get "news" and Padilla being tortured into insanity was "old news" and not worthy of mention.
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Plus, no matter the disposition of the case, will Americans and the world have confidence that justice has been done? I'm not convinced of that. I would think that the only real solution is to take the prisoners for whom there is real evidence of having committed terrorist acts to an International Court.
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Obama has promised to start the process immediately after inauguration, and he needs to be held to that promise.

A CNN article said the following:
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"Officials close to the Obama team said in November that the incoming administration is pondering options, including trying some of the Guantanamo Bay inmates in federal courts, setting up a special national security court to deal with cases involving the most sensitive intelligence information, and releasing some inmates."
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I'm curious to see how they plan to try these detainees. An unfortunate consequence of the apparent abusive interrogations is that any information (confessions, info about other suspects) gained via these techniques is inadmissible in US courts. In other words, federal prosecutors may not be able to present evidence against these prisoners. In fact, the pattern of abuse may cast doubt on information gained through acceptable interrogations. If I'm understanding this correctly, the incoming admin may have to choose between releasing the detainees or continuing to deny their right to trial.

peaking of sock and awe, great cartoon: The Shoe Attack.

US courts are well equipped to handle cases involving the most sensitive intelligence information. I don't see that a "special national security court" is needed. They need to restore faith in the system we have, which has handled national security issues in the past. There is no reason to have to set up any "special" courts to do that. And I'm very much in favor of hearing testimony on how the evidence was obtained.
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Most of the Guantanamo prisoners, as I understand it, will not be charged in a court of law, there being no evidence that they have committed terrorist acts. It is a matter of finding a country to take them. For example, the 17 Chinese prisoners cannot be sent back to China, where they face religious persecution, and they have been determined not to have committed terrorist acts, but no country will accept them.
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Here's an excellent AFP piecer by Pentagon reporter Jim Mannion:
Gates orders plan for closing Guantanamo - Yahoo! News

james,la, thanks for bringing the media topic back around. Never far from the surface, is it!

I'm trying to reform my errant behavior, wv.