Comments on: The "Ongoing Investigation" Thing http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/ A blog about politics. Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:46:22 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: light leaks » One more thing http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27261 light leaks » One more thing Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:42:19 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27261 [...] for imputing specificity that wasn’t there. But this type of behavior—especially the “ongoing investigation” dodge—is disgusting and does not merit my defense. So I took the post down. As Ambinder says, [...] [...] for imputing specificity that wasn’t there. But this type of behavior—especially the “ongoing investigation” dodge—is disgusting and does not merit my defense. So I took the post down. As Ambinder says, [...]

]]> By: egilsson1 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27259 egilsson1 Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:38:51 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27259 Scherer isn't motivated out any actual journalistic impulse - because he only plays these games in one direction. Fundamentally he's a cynical kid who's sucking up to Halperin for various professional advantages (as he sees it). He thinks he's being amusing and savvy, but in the end he just treats the posters here with contempt. But I'm all for transparency. Bush is still president and there's still an awful lot we don't know. What was the Bush administration doing in 2003 that led to the threatened resignations of all the top DOJ guys (Ashcroft, Comey etc.)? Why doesn't Scherer dig into that and stop posting obnoxious and shallow foolishness? Scherer isn't motivated out any actual journalistic impulse - because he only plays these games in one direction.

Fundamentally he's a cynical kid who's sucking up to Halperin for various professional advantages (as he sees it).

He thinks he's being amusing and savvy, but in the end he just treats the posters here with contempt.

But I'm all for transparency. Bush is still president and there's still an awful lot we don't know. What was the Bush administration doing in 2003 that led to the threatened resignations of all the top DOJ guys (Ashcroft, Comey etc.)?

Why doesn't Scherer dig into that and stop posting obnoxious and shallow foolishness?

]]> By: formerlyjames http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27137 formerlyjames Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:30:22 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27137 OK, MS jumps the gun. Let's all go hysterical over it. I am the total, complete Obama supporter. I didn't just cast a ballot for him, I voted with money too. But I have to say that I am more Anti-Republican than I am Democrat. In this matter, what I have little doubt about is that Obama and his staff knew what what going on. I also doubt that they participated in any wrongdoing, but that they did have knowledge. This thing evolved in less than a month. Not much time for anybody to do anything but think about it what to do next before the feds closed in. As for MS, I am sure, or at least hope like hell, that the Obama staff is telling what they know. And Michael, we won't necessarily know about that immediately, if ever. OK, MS jumps the gun. Let's all go hysterical over it. I am the total, complete Obama supporter. I didn't just cast a ballot for him, I voted with money too. But I have to say that I am more Anti-Republican than I am Democrat. In this matter, what I have little doubt about is that Obama and his staff knew what what going on. I also doubt that they participated in any wrongdoing, but that they did have knowledge. This thing evolved in less than a month. Not much time for anybody to do anything but think about it what to do next before the feds closed in. As for MS, I am sure, or at least hope like hell, that the Obama staff is telling what they know. And Michael, we won't necessarily know about that immediately, if ever.

]]> By: cincinnatus est exterminata! http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27043 cincinnatus est exterminata! Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:49:53 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27043 "Of course! It all makes perfect conspiratorial sense! Except for one thing: in this case some liberals are seeing broad partisan conspiracies where none likely exist." (translation: sure theres smoke but come on people there's no fire here. Move along.) http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2007/01/17/running_massacre/ . "What's more, as far as anyone seems to know, Barack Obama has nothing to hide. He says he never talked to Gov. Blagojevich about any of this. So what's up? " (translation: sure there's no fire here, but mind if I roll up the windows and hot box these right wing talking points?) "Of course! It all makes perfect conspiratorial sense! Except for one thing: in this case some liberals are seeing broad partisan conspiracies where none likely exist."
(translation: sure theres smoke but come on people there's no fire here. Move along.)
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2007/01/17/running_massacre/
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"What's more, as far as anyone seems to know, Barack Obama has nothing to hide. He says he never talked to Gov. Blagojevich about any of this. So what's up? "
(translation: sure there's no fire here, but mind if I roll up the windows and hot box these right wing talking points?)

]]> By: Andy from MA http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27034 Andy from MA Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:40:16 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27034 As far as not commenting on a current investigation you can take that back to Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc. BFD. Lawyers being lawyers will parse, "I want a cookie." . What I am curious about, why did Fitzgerald get this out before he had a solid case? There is no indictment. He is going to have to have a preliminary hearing. Read this column from for prosecutor Scott Turow in today's Times. . If I'm the governor, as guilty as the tapes sound, I'm innocent until proven guilty by a jury of my peers. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10turow.html?_r=1 As far as not commenting on a current investigation you can take that back to Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc. BFD. Lawyers being lawyers will parse, "I want a cookie."
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What I am curious about, why did Fitzgerald get this out before he had a solid case? There is no indictment. He is going to have to have a preliminary hearing. Read this column from for prosecutor Scott Turow in today's Times.
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If I'm the governor, as guilty as the tapes sound, I'm innocent until proven guilty by a jury of my peers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10turow.html?_r=1

]]> By: davemc321 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27021 davemc321 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:08:08 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27021 Oh, Michael's right, there are lots of questions to be asked. . Like who benefits from drawing Obama into the controversy around the governor? Do the GOP officials quoted by Ambinder have anything factual to support their statements that Obama is involved. Or is it just innuendo? . Certainly ask Obama if he had knowledge of the alleged scheme. Since he's already said No, you have to do more than formulate questions that strengthen an implication he's hiding something. If Obama is hiding something, you have to show us, not tell us. And that will take time. . More importantly than questions, Michael and other journalists could help us navigate the mess, sorting out fact from fiction, probabilities from speculation. . Of course, that would get in the way of the preformed media narrative that Michael's questions suggest - which is either that Obama is a naif lost in DC Land and has no right to play with the Big Boys. Or that he's just another corrupt politician. And that's just sad. Oh, Michael's right, there are lots of questions to be asked.
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Like who benefits from drawing Obama into the controversy around the governor? Do the GOP officials quoted by Ambinder have anything factual to support their statements that Obama is involved. Or is it just innuendo?
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Certainly ask Obama if he had knowledge of the alleged scheme. Since he's already said No, you have to do more than formulate questions that strengthen an implication he's hiding something. If Obama is hiding something, you have to show us, not tell us. And that will take time.
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More importantly than questions, Michael and other journalists could help us navigate the mess, sorting out fact from fiction, probabilities from speculation.
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Of course, that would get in the way of the preformed media narrative that Michael's questions suggest - which is either that Obama is a naif lost in DC Land and has no right to play with the Big Boys. Or that he's just another corrupt politician. And that's just sad.

]]> By: Paul Dirks http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27020 Paul Dirks Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:07:34 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27020 Re: Google In fairness, not everything on the internet is permanent. There are likely a lot of current stories which are not destined to be archived a year down the road. The "Google Test" is probably not a good indicator of all coverage. Again the two main contrasts between Blagogate and Plamegate is that the press were active players in the Plame affair and that unlike the situation Rove and Scooter, nobody's leaping to the defense of the Illinois governor and complaining about how unfair and politically motivated Fitz must be. . It's really night and day. Re: Google
In fairness, not everything on the internet is permanent. There are likely a lot of current stories which are not destined to be archived a year down the road. The "Google Test" is probably not a good indicator of all coverage.
Again the two main contrasts between Blagogate and Plamegate is that the press were active players in the Plame affair and that unlike the situation Rove and Scooter, nobody's leaping to the defense of the Illinois governor and complaining about how unfair and politically motivated Fitz must be.
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It's really night and day.

]]> By: cincinnatus est exterminata! http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27009 cincinnatus est exterminata! Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:40:45 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27009 "funny how some of the same people who were so upset about questions not being asked before are upset now about questions being asked." . This is a tacit admission that questions were not raised in the past 8 years. That's how it works....now that a Dem is in power suddenly, 'Oh alright, alright we'll ask questions now after 8 years of complaining...even if the questions are irrelevant!" . Listen to the tough questioning Scherer subjected Mark Salter to: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1856960,00.html (note click on the audio link on the left margin or the download link) "funny how some of the same people who were so upset about questions not being asked before are upset now about questions being asked."
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This is a tacit admission that questions were not raised in the past 8 years. That's how it works....now that a Dem is in power suddenly, 'Oh alright, alright we'll ask questions now after 8 years of complaining...even if the questions are irrelevant!"
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Listen to the tough questioning Scherer subjected Mark Salter to:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1856960,00.html
(note click on the audio link on the left margin or the download link)

]]> By: Paul-no not that one http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27007 Paul-no not that one Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:39:19 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27007 Oh and kudos for helping out in the smearing of the one currently successful union, SEIU. Oh and kudos for helping out in the smearing of the one currently successful union, SEIU.

]]> By: Paul-no not that one http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/10/the-ongoing-investigation-thing/comment-page-4/#comment-27000 Paul-no not that one Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:32:53 +0000 http://swampland.blogs.time.com/?p=8866#comment-27000 "Have you discussed the senate seat replacement with intermediaries who passed on information from the gov or to the gov?" . "Have you asked your staff to find out what contacts the governor made to the transition as part of his allegedly corrupt scheme?" Appropriate response- On going investigation . "Are you going to instruct your staff to be as transparent as possible about what contacts there were between the gov and the transition, or SEIU and the transition, about the senate seat?" Appropriate response-transparent as possible as determined by Michael Scherer? "Have you discussed the senate seat replacement with intermediaries who passed on information from the gov or to the gov?"

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"Have you asked your staff to find out what contacts the governor made to the transition as part of his allegedly corrupt scheme?"
Appropriate response- On going investigation
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"Are you going to instruct your staff to be as transparent as possible about what contacts there were between the gov and the transition, or SEIU and the transition, about the senate seat?"
Appropriate response-transparent as possible as determined by Michael Scherer?

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