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	<title>Comments on: Gates: A &quot;Done Deal&quot;</title>
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		<item>
		<title>By: James, Los Angeles</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24790</link>
		<dc:creator>James, Los Angeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Decoursey,
.
I have no opinion on the specific programs cut or not cut, as I say. Nor on &quot;zero defects.&quot; I had an opinion on TQM, when SecDef Cheney was the boss and Reagan the president, but it never occurred to me to hold them personally responsible or harbor an intense hatred against them over the failure of TQM. Jes saying.
.
I guess you have nothing good to say about the substantial raises in pay or health benefits or veteran&#039;s health care that Clinton pushed through. Because you never acknowledge the balance of the Clinton Administration&#039;s military policies, it appears to me that you have internalized the rightwing propaganda that has been fed you over the course of your military career.
.
Note that I&#039;m not a great fan of Clinton: a lot of stuff he did during his presidency disappointed me. I view myself as a rightwing propaganda-debunker.  And, you&#039;ve got it bad, buddy. Think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Decoursey,<br />
.<br />
I have no opinion on the specific programs cut or not cut, as I say. Nor on "zero defects." I had an opinion on TQM, when SecDef Cheney was the boss and Reagan the president, but it never occurred to me to hold them personally responsible or harbor an intense hatred against them over the failure of TQM. Jes saying.<br />
.<br />
I guess you have nothing good to say about the substantial raises in pay or health benefits or veteran's health care that Clinton pushed through. Because you never acknowledge the balance of the Clinton Administration's military policies, it appears to me that you have internalized the rightwing propaganda that has been fed you over the course of your military career.<br />
.<br />
Note that I'm not a great fan of Clinton: a lot of stuff he did during his presidency disappointed me. I view myself as a rightwing propaganda-debunker.  And, you've got it bad, buddy. Think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean DeCoursey forgot his password</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24757</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean DeCoursey forgot his password</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24757</guid>
		<description>James, LA
-
What usesherbrain said.  My problem with Clinton was that he didn&#039;t cut enough stupid big budget programs.  Cheney was right to kill the stuff he did, I wish he&#039;d gotten rid of more of it.  
-
The V-22 Osprey comes to mind.  It&#039;s killed over 40 marines in testing, is unarmed, and takes six seconds to stop and land VTOL or to take off the same way.  It also can&#039;t auto-rotate so a crash is pretty much 100% fatal.  The thing is a retardedly expensive flying coffin that&#039;s pretty much worse than existing helicopters in every conceivable fashion.
-
and yeah, my biggest problem with Clinton was and is zero-defects.  It screwed the military up so, so badly.  We&#039;re only now starting to recover because of all the years at war.
-
I also hate Don&#039;t Ask Don&#039;t Tell.  He should have just pulled a Truman and signed an executive order.  The military would have dealt with it.  Instead he enshrined a very screwed up partisan calculated solely for political effect and not for the betterment of the force policy.  Clinton really just had no clue about the military, the people in it, or how it worked.  That he never developed any feel or understanding for it at all while in office is a failure of both him and his military advisors.
-
Brain,
-
congrats on the links. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, LA<br />
-<br />
What usesherbrain said.  My problem with Clinton was that he didn't cut enough stupid big budget programs.  Cheney was right to kill the stuff he did, I wish he'd gotten rid of more of it.<br />
-<br />
The V-22 Osprey comes to mind.  It's killed over 40 marines in testing, is unarmed, and takes six seconds to stop and land VTOL or to take off the same way.  It also can't auto-rotate so a crash is pretty much 100% fatal.  The thing is a retardedly expensive flying coffin that's pretty much worse than existing helicopters in every conceivable fashion.<br />
-<br />
and yeah, my biggest problem with Clinton was and is zero-defects.  It screwed the military up so, so badly.  We're only now starting to recover because of all the years at war.<br />
-<br />
I also hate Don't Ask Don't Tell.  He should have just pulled a Truman and signed an executive order.  The military would have dealt with it.  Instead he enshrined a very screwed up partisan calculated solely for political effect and not for the betterment of the force policy.  Clinton really just had no clue about the military, the people in it, or how it worked.  That he never developed any feel or understanding for it at all while in office is a failure of both him and his military advisors.<br />
-<br />
Brain,<br />
-<br />
congrats on the links. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James, Los Angeles</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24753</link>
		<dc:creator>James, Los Angeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24753</guid>
		<description>usesherbrain,
.
thanks for your intelligent and well-put-together argument. You make some excellent points. I really have no opinion on whether Clinton cut or didn&#039;t cut &quot;enough&quot; and whether he was solely responsible or if it was a combination of a radical, extremist Republican Congress, a Republican SecDef and his lack of understanding of the military that the exact program cuts weren&#039;t to Decoursey&#039;s liking. Clinton didn&#039;t cut platforms that were deemed unnecessary, impractical, and underperforming? OMG! Welcome to the entire history of military procurement!!!! Yes, let us all blame Clinton and Clinton only and Clinton personally for keeping unnecessary and impractical military programs going! Because that has never, ever happened before in US history! 

When I worked for the military (as a civilian) it was TQM - Total Quality Management -- which was a Reagan-era formula for failure. The difference there is that even though it was a totally, laughably ineffective approach to improving the military infrastructure, I nor anyone else was given to ranting and railing about it and blaming Reagan himself for its failure to impact the bureaucracy.  It would be pathological of me to blame Ronald Reagan himself, personally, for the failure of TQM to improve the Department of Defense, don&#039;t you think?
.
That&#039;s what Decoursey is doing. I suggest that he has been conditioned to blame Clinton personally for every single piece of minutuae related to what he didn&#039;t like about the military. He has internalized all the rightwing propaganda that and displays a pathological hatred that renders him unable to acknowledge that other factors besides Bill Clinton&#039;s personal failures might have made his time in the military unsatisfactory.
.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>usesherbrain,<br />
.<br />
thanks for your intelligent and well-put-together argument. You make some excellent points. I really have no opinion on whether Clinton cut or didn't cut "enough" and whether he was solely responsible or if it was a combination of a radical, extremist Republican Congress, a Republican SecDef and his lack of understanding of the military that the exact program cuts weren't to Decoursey's liking. Clinton didn't cut platforms that were deemed unnecessary, impractical, and underperforming? OMG! Welcome to the entire history of military procurement!!!! Yes, let us all blame Clinton and Clinton only and Clinton personally for keeping unnecessary and impractical military programs going! Because that has never, ever happened before in US history! </p>
<p>When I worked for the military (as a civilian) it was TQM - Total Quality Management -- which was a Reagan-era formula for failure. The difference there is that even though it was a totally, laughably ineffective approach to improving the military infrastructure, I nor anyone else was given to ranting and railing about it and blaming Reagan himself for its failure to impact the bureaucracy.  It would be pathological of me to blame Ronald Reagan himself, personally, for the failure of TQM to improve the Department of Defense, don't you think?<br />
.<br />
That's what Decoursey is doing. I suggest that he has been conditioned to blame Clinton personally for every single piece of minutuae related to what he didn't like about the military. He has internalized all the rightwing propaganda that and displays a pathological hatred that renders him unable to acknowledge that other factors besides Bill Clinton's personal failures might have made his time in the military unsatisfactory.<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: usesherbrain</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24680</link>
		<dc:creator>usesherbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24680</guid>
		<description>Oh, and can I say how excited I am that my links came out, even without preview?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and can I say how excited I am that my links came out, even without preview?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: usesherbrain</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24677</link>
		<dc:creator>usesherbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24677</guid>
		<description>James, LA:
.
I&#039;m actually going to take up Decoursey&#039;s argument here, because I think there&#039;s been a bit of a mis-fire here. (Sean, feel free to correct if I misinterpreted.)
.
Decoursey&#039;s point was not that Clinton *cut* lots of military acquisition programs, but that he didn&#039;t cut *enough*. I would propose that SECDEF Cheney cut too many programs--in fact, he cut programs that would be useful in the 2000s, like the Aegis--but that Clinton&#039;s inability to cut programs like the Comanche or the Crusader was a detriment to the military. (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAH-66_Comanche&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comanche&lt;/A&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM2001_Crusader&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Crusader&lt;/A&gt;). These platforms were deemed unnecessary, impractical, and/or underperforming for the environment they were supposed to inhabit, and were cut by Rumsfeld, one of the only things I think I agreed with him on in his entire tenure. 
.
Decoursey&#039;s first point was regarding the &quot;zero defects&quot; policy instituted by President Clinton. This policy changed promotion boards from performance-based assessments of the entire officer (where any possible mistakes could be mitigated by further exemplary service) to a summation system, where only officers with no marks on their records could be promoted (leading to possibly promoting the less-capable officers in preference to the more-capable ones because they were willing to risk less in their careers).
.
In a 1996 report by the American Forces Press Service, Army Gen. J. H. Binford Peay III, commander in chief, U.S. Central Command
 said, &quot;Expecting zero defects leads to failure. While the American people have every right to demand competence, character and leadership from our military commanders, they should not expect zero defects.&quot; 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=40748&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/A&gt;). 
.
There are other, less glowing reviews of the &quot;zero-defect&quot; policy out there, but this one was the least partisan I could find. 
.
In summary, there&#039;s a lot of ill-will from a large percentage of the military towards the Clinton years, for what they see as a discrimination policy that weeded out the most competent out-of-the-box thinkers among them, which is exactly who is really needed in command.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, LA:<br />
.<br />
I'm actually going to take up Decoursey's argument here, because I think there's been a bit of a mis-fire here. (Sean, feel free to correct if I misinterpreted.)<br />
.<br />
Decoursey's point was not that Clinton *cut* lots of military acquisition programs, but that he didn't cut *enough*. I would propose that SECDEF Cheney cut too many programs--in fact, he cut programs that would be useful in the 2000s, like the Aegis--but that Clinton's inability to cut programs like the Comanche or the Crusader was a detriment to the military. (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAH-66_Comanche" rel="nofollow">Comanche</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM2001_Crusader" rel="nofollow">Crusader</a>). These platforms were deemed unnecessary, impractical, and/or underperforming for the environment they were supposed to inhabit, and were cut by Rumsfeld, one of the only things I think I agreed with him on in his entire tenure.<br />
.<br />
Decoursey's first point was regarding the "zero defects" policy instituted by President Clinton. This policy changed promotion boards from performance-based assessments of the entire officer (where any possible mistakes could be mitigated by further exemplary service) to a summation system, where only officers with no marks on their records could be promoted (leading to possibly promoting the less-capable officers in preference to the more-capable ones because they were willing to risk less in their careers).<br />
.<br />
In a 1996 report by the American Forces Press Service, Army Gen. J. H. Binford Peay III, commander in chief, U.S. Central Command<br />
 said, "Expecting zero defects leads to failure. While the American people have every right to demand competence, character and leadership from our military commanders, they should not expect zero defects."<br />
<a href="http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=40748" rel="nofollow">Link</a>).<br />
.<br />
There are other, less glowing reviews of the "zero-defect" policy out there, but this one was the least partisan I could find.<br />
.<br />
In summary, there's a lot of ill-will from a large percentage of the military towards the Clinton years, for what they see as a discrimination policy that weeded out the most competent out-of-the-box thinkers among them, which is exactly who is really needed in command.</p>
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		<title>By: James, Los Angeles</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24661</link>
		<dc:creator>James, Los Angeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24661</guid>
		<description>More:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DA1730F930A25755C0A966958260&amp;scp=7&amp;sq=cheney%20cuts%20military&amp;st=cse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cheney Backs His Budget and His Cuts - New York Times&lt;/a&gt;
//
The hearing today reflected a predicament facing Congress and the Bush Administration as they try to come up with ways to make deep military cuts: Congress&#039;s natural inclination to protect military contracts and bases.

&#039;&#039;The story of my life, since I became Secretary, is not that Congress is trying to cut programs out from under me, but rather that I have difficulty persuading Congress to allow me to cut anything,&#039;&#039; Mr. Cheney told the panel.

Furor Over Base Closings

In January, for example, Mr. Cheney touched off a furor in Congress when he announced that he was considering closing 35 of the nation&#039;s largest military installations to save money. The proposed changes came on top of 86 military bases that are being closed under orders from Congress.

The Pentagon proposed last year that several expensive weapon programs be dropped, including the Osprey and new production of the Navy&#039;s F-14 fighter plane, but intensive lobbying in Congress restored financing for the programs.

The Administration has proposed a $307 billion military budget for the fiscal year that will begin Oct. 1, next year, and is seeking ways to accommodate its goal to reduce Pentagon spending by 2 percent a year through 1997. Various House and Senate versions of next year&#039;s budget range from $289 billion to $283 billion. 
//
.
.
There&#039;s a lot more where that came from, but I&#039;ll wait for Decoursey&#039;s rebuttal before I continue to debunk his unfounded assertions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More:<br />
<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DA1730F930A25755C0A966958260&amp;scp=7&amp;sq=cheney%20cuts%20military&amp;st=cse" rel="nofollow">Cheney Backs His Budget and His Cuts - New York Times</a><br />
//<br />
The hearing today reflected a predicament facing Congress and the Bush Administration as they try to come up with ways to make deep military cuts: Congress's natural inclination to protect military contracts and bases.</p>
<p>''The story of my life, since I became Secretary, is not that Congress is trying to cut programs out from under me, but rather that I have difficulty persuading Congress to allow me to cut anything,'' Mr. Cheney told the panel.</p>
<p>Furor Over Base Closings</p>
<p>In January, for example, Mr. Cheney touched off a furor in Congress when he announced that he was considering closing 35 of the nation's largest military installations to save money. The proposed changes came on top of 86 military bases that are being closed under orders from Congress.</p>
<p>The Pentagon proposed last year that several expensive weapon programs be dropped, including the Osprey and new production of the Navy's F-14 fighter plane, but intensive lobbying in Congress restored financing for the programs.</p>
<p>The Administration has proposed a $307 billion military budget for the fiscal year that will begin Oct. 1, next year, and is seeking ways to accommodate its goal to reduce Pentagon spending by 2 percent a year through 1997. Various House and Senate versions of next year's budget range from $289 billion to $283 billion.<br />
//<br />
.<br />
.<br />
There's a lot more where that came from, but I'll wait for Decoursey's rebuttal before I continue to debunk his unfounded assertions.</p>
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		<title>By: James, Los Angeles</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24660</link>
		<dc:creator>James, Los Angeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24660</guid>
		<description>More:
//
The 1991 Budget: Armed Forces;
CHENEY WOULD CUT DIVISIONS IN ARMY BUT MAINTAIN B-2

By MICHAEL R. GORDON, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: January 30, 1990

LEAD: Defense Secretary Dick Cheney outlined his long-term plans for reshaping the military today, proposing the elimination of five of the Army&#039;s 28 active-duty and reserve divisions and making new investments in costly long-range nuclear programs through the mid-1990&#039;s.

Defense Secretary Dick Cheney outlined his long-term plans for reshaping the military today, proposing the elimination of five of the Army&#039;s 28 active-duty and reserve divisions and making new investments in costly long-range nuclear programs through the mid-1990&#039;s.

As a first step, Mr. Cheney said the Pentagon would cut two of the Army&#039;s 18 active divisions in the 1991 fiscal year while holding the Navy roughly constant and continuing spending on the B-2 bomber.

The Secretary said major long-term changes in the military would depend on completion of agreements with the Soviet Union to cut conventional forces in Europe and to make deep reductions in long-range nuclear forces.
//
&lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4D71730F933A05752C0A966958260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The 1991 Budget: Armed Forces; CHENEY WOULD CUT DIVISIONS IN ARMY BUT MAINTAIN B-2 - New York Times&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More:<br />
//<br />
The 1991 Budget: Armed Forces;<br />
CHENEY WOULD CUT DIVISIONS IN ARMY BUT MAINTAIN B-2</p>
<p>By MICHAEL R. GORDON, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES<br />
Published: January 30, 1990</p>
<p>LEAD: Defense Secretary Dick Cheney outlined his long-term plans for reshaping the military today, proposing the elimination of five of the Army's 28 active-duty and reserve divisions and making new investments in costly long-range nuclear programs through the mid-1990's.</p>
<p>Defense Secretary Dick Cheney outlined his long-term plans for reshaping the military today, proposing the elimination of five of the Army's 28 active-duty and reserve divisions and making new investments in costly long-range nuclear programs through the mid-1990's.</p>
<p>As a first step, Mr. Cheney said the Pentagon would cut two of the Army's 18 active divisions in the 1991 fiscal year while holding the Navy roughly constant and continuing spending on the B-2 bomber.</p>
<p>The Secretary said major long-term changes in the military would depend on completion of agreements with the Soviet Union to cut conventional forces in Europe and to make deep reductions in long-range nuclear forces.<br />
//<br />
<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4D71730F933A05752C0A966958260&amp;sec=&amp;spon=&amp;pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">The 1991 Budget: Armed Forces; CHENEY WOULD CUT DIVISIONS IN ARMY BUT MAINTAIN B-2 - New York Times</a></p>
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		<title>By: James, Los Angeles</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24656</link>
		<dc:creator>James, Los Angeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24656</guid>
		<description>Also, here&#039;s more:

.
Cheney Cut Thousands of Active-Duty, Reserve, and Civilian Forces. In January 1990, Cheney banned the hiring of any new civilian personnel in the Defense Department through the end of September, which left more than 65,000 jobs vacant. Under the budget proposed in 1990, the Pentagon would have reduced active military personnel by 38,000; selected reserves would have fallen by 3,000. The budget called for the deactivation of two Army divisions. Long range, the Pentagon planned to reduce its work force by 300,000, including about 200,000 military personnel and 100,000 civilians. In 1991, he called for reduction of 200,000 active and reserve military personnel over two years. In 1992, Cheney called for cutting 500,000 active-duty people, 200,000 reservists, and 200,000 civilians over five years. [Minneapolis Star-Tribune, 2/2/92; Chicago Tribune, 2/20/91; 1990 CQ Almanac, p. 672; Washington Post, 1/13/90; Boston Globe, 1/30/90]
.
Also
.
APACHE HELICOPTER: THE CHENEY RECORD: Terminate The Apache; According to the RNC, AH-64 Apache Helicopters Were Crucial to Operation Iraqi Freedom.In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, Cheney said, “This is just a list of some of the programs that I&#039;ve recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera.” In testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Cheney said, “The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64…I forced the Army to make choices…So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out.” [Cheney testimony, Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, 6/12/90; Cheney Testimony, House Armed Services Committee, 7/13/89; Kerry’s Military: As He Would Like It,” 7/18/03]
.
Also
.
AEGIS SHIPS: THE CHENEY RECORD: Cheney Cut Program, Costing Jobs. Cheney plan cut 9 of original 25 ships planned, putting shipyard in jeopardy [States News Service, 8/14/90; Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/24/90]

BRADLEY FIGHTING VEHICLES: THE CHENEY RECORD: Bush-Cheney Budget Terminated The Bradley. “Major weapons killed include the Army&#039;s M-2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Navy&#039;s Trident submarine and F-14 aircraft, and the Air Force&#039;s F-16 airplane. Cheney decided the military already has enough of these weapons.” [Boston Globe, 2/5/91]

BLACKHAWK HELICPTERS: THE CHENEY RECORD: Terminate The Black Hawk. The Pentagon’s internal budget deliberations recommended termination of the Black Hawk program under Secretary Cheney.” [Aerospace Daily, 5/15/90]
.
Also
.
Active-Duty and Reserve Forces Endured Huge Reductions Under Cheney. The LA Times reported in November 1991 that the number of active-duty military personnel had decreased by over 106,000, or 5 percent of the total forces. The National Guard and Reserves had been cut by nearly 38,000, instead of the 105,000 the Bush Administration sought. [LA Times, 11/2/91]
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.itsyourtimes.com/?q=node/2012&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;REPUBLICANS EMPTY SCARE TACTIC - CLAIMING ONLY DEMOCRATS CUT DEFENSE &#124; ItsYourTimes.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, here's more:</p>
<p>.<br />
Cheney Cut Thousands of Active-Duty, Reserve, and Civilian Forces. In January 1990, Cheney banned the hiring of any new civilian personnel in the Defense Department through the end of September, which left more than 65,000 jobs vacant. Under the budget proposed in 1990, the Pentagon would have reduced active military personnel by 38,000; selected reserves would have fallen by 3,000. The budget called for the deactivation of two Army divisions. Long range, the Pentagon planned to reduce its work force by 300,000, including about 200,000 military personnel and 100,000 civilians. In 1991, he called for reduction of 200,000 active and reserve military personnel over two years. In 1992, Cheney called for cutting 500,000 active-duty people, 200,000 reservists, and 200,000 civilians over five years. [Minneapolis Star-Tribune, 2/2/92; Chicago Tribune, 2/20/91; 1990 CQ Almanac, p. 672; Washington Post, 1/13/90; Boston Globe, 1/30/90]<br />
.<br />
Also<br />
.<br />
APACHE HELICOPTER: THE CHENEY RECORD: Terminate The Apache; According to the RNC, AH-64 Apache Helicopters Were Crucial to Operation Iraqi Freedom.In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, Cheney said, “This is just a list of some of the programs that I've recommended termination: the V-22 Osprey, the F-14D, the Army Helicopter Improvement Program, Phoenix missile, F-15E, the Apache helicopter, the M1 tank, et cetera.” In testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Cheney said, “The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64…I forced the Army to make choices…So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out.” [Cheney testimony, Senate Appropriations Committee, Defense Subcommittee, 6/12/90; Cheney Testimony, House Armed Services Committee, 7/13/89; Kerry's Military: As He Would Like It,” 7/18/03]<br />
.<br />
Also<br />
.<br />
AEGIS SHIPS: THE CHENEY RECORD: Cheney Cut Program, Costing Jobs. Cheney plan cut 9 of original 25 ships planned, putting shipyard in jeopardy [States News Service, 8/14/90; Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/24/90]</p>
<p>BRADLEY FIGHTING VEHICLES: THE CHENEY RECORD: Bush-Cheney Budget Terminated The Bradley. “Major weapons killed include the Army's M-2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Navy's Trident submarine and F-14 aircraft, and the Air Force's F-16 airplane. Cheney decided the military already has enough of these weapons.” [Boston Globe, 2/5/91]</p>
<p>BLACKHAWK HELICPTERS: THE CHENEY RECORD: Terminate The Black Hawk. The Pentagon's internal budget deliberations recommended termination of the Black Hawk program under Secretary Cheney.” [Aerospace Daily, 5/15/90]<br />
.<br />
Also<br />
.<br />
Active-Duty and Reserve Forces Endured Huge Reductions Under Cheney. The LA Times reported in November 1991 that the number of active-duty military personnel had decreased by over 106,000, or 5 percent of the total forces. The National Guard and Reserves had been cut by nearly 38,000, instead of the 105,000 the Bush Administration sought. [LA Times, 11/2/91]<br />
<a href="http://www.itsyourtimes.com/?q=node/2012" rel="nofollow">REPUBLICANS EMPTY SCARE TACTIC - CLAIMING ONLY DEMOCRATS CUT DEFENSE | ItsYourTimes.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: James, Los Angeles</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24655</link>
		<dc:creator>James, Los Angeles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24655</guid>
		<description>Sean Decoursey, I&#039;m quite surprised at your pathological hatred of the Clintons, which is fine, but you don&#039;t have your facts right. It was actually Dick Cheney as HW Bush&#039;s SecDefense who enacted all those cuts to the military that you rail against.
.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972454,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Preparedness: How Many Wars Can the U.S. Fight? - TIME&lt;/a&gt;

//
Preparedness: How Many Wars Can the U.S. Fight?
&lt;b&gt;Monday, Mar. 04, 1991&lt;/b&gt;
By JESSE BIRNBAUM Time Magazine
.
In testimony before two congressional committees last week, Pentagon bosses Dick Cheney and Colin Powell defended their new multiyear budget, proposed earlier this month, which calls for a 25% cut in military personnel by 1995, a 4% reduction in spending and even the elimination of many of the weapons that have proved to be so dramatically effective in the gulf.
.
Cheney and Powell make three arguments in favor of the cutbacks: 1) the runaway federal deficit dictates smaller defense budgets, 2) the Soviet threat has declined, and 3) quality can replace quantity.
.
The key to the Pentagon&#039;s new approach will be a sharply reduced American &quot;forward deployment&quot; in Europe and the Pacific, backed by a strong, mobile capability stationed in the U.S. The Army would be reduced from 28 divisions to 20, supported by increased, speedier airlift and sea-lift capacity, and including a quick-reaction Contingency Force consisting of the XVIII Airborne Corps reinforced with two armored divisions. The Pentagon would also proceed with its plans to close 225 military bases around the world and to tighten its procurement policies. All told, the current force of 2.1 million active-duty personnel would be reduced about one-fourth, roughly equal to the number of troops engaged in the gulf war.
.
Oddly, Cheney also wants to phase out some of the battle equipment that the public has only begun to recognize. The M1A1 tank as well as the Bradley fighting vehicle, both hardy workhorses in the gulf, will no longer be produced. Assembly lines for the AH-64 Apache and AH-1S Cobra helicopters, so efficient in the fighting, will close; the Army wants a new heavy battle tank and a high-tech helicopter instead. The Navy will eliminate or scale back some weapons designed for battling the Soviets, including its Trident SLBM submarine program and its hunter-killer Seawolf submarine procurement, and reduce its overall carrier group strength from 13 to 12. Increased costs will almost certainly force the Air Force to cut its proposed purchase of 120 C-17 transport planes.
//
.
also
.
//
Our Overstuffed Armed Forces: Reasons to Cut More
Lawrence J. Korb
From Foreign Affairs, November/December 1995:
&gt;
Despite their differences, President Clinton and the Republican-controlled Congress have agreed on two things. The first is that the federal deficit should be eliminated by slashing federal spending rather than increasing taxes; indeed, both sides want to cut taxes. They have also agreed that projected levels of defense spending will not be part of any deficit reduction package. In fact, both the administration and Congress have called for increases for defense for the rest of the decade. In 1996 and 1997 alone Congress wants to add $20 billion to what the Pentagon requested, and it has established firewalls between defense and nondefense areas of the budget so that funds cannot be shifted to cushion cuts in social programs. Under the terms of the joint budget resolution Congress adopted in June, between 1995 and 2002 domestic discretionary funding will fall from $248 billion to $218 billion while military expenditures will rise from $262 billion to $281 billion.&lt;
//
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19951101faessay5076/lawrence-j-korb/our-overstuffed-armed-forces-reasons-to-cut-more.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Foreign Affairs - Our Overstuffed Armed Forces: Reasons to Cut More - Lawrence J. Korb&lt;/a&gt;
.
.
You know, if you are going to rail against someone, at least have your facts right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean Decoursey, I'm quite surprised at your pathological hatred of the Clintons, which is fine, but you don't have your facts right. It was actually Dick Cheney as HW Bush's SecDefense who enacted all those cuts to the military that you rail against.<br />
.<br />
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972454,00.html" rel="nofollow">Preparedness: How Many Wars Can the U.S. Fight? - TIME</a></p>
<p>//<br />
Preparedness: How Many Wars Can the U.S. Fight?<br />
<b>Monday, Mar. 04, 1991</b><br />
By JESSE BIRNBAUM Time Magazine<br />
.<br />
In testimony before two congressional committees last week, Pentagon bosses Dick Cheney and Colin Powell defended their new multiyear budget, proposed earlier this month, which calls for a 25% cut in military personnel by 1995, a 4% reduction in spending and even the elimination of many of the weapons that have proved to be so dramatically effective in the gulf.<br />
.<br />
Cheney and Powell make three arguments in favor of the cutbacks: 1) the runaway federal deficit dictates smaller defense budgets, 2) the Soviet threat has declined, and 3) quality can replace quantity.<br />
.<br />
The key to the Pentagon's new approach will be a sharply reduced American "forward deployment" in Europe and the Pacific, backed by a strong, mobile capability stationed in the U.S. The Army would be reduced from 28 divisions to 20, supported by increased, speedier airlift and sea-lift capacity, and including a quick-reaction Contingency Force consisting of the XVIII Airborne Corps reinforced with two armored divisions. The Pentagon would also proceed with its plans to close 225 military bases around the world and to tighten its procurement policies. All told, the current force of 2.1 million active-duty personnel would be reduced about one-fourth, roughly equal to the number of troops engaged in the gulf war.<br />
.<br />
Oddly, Cheney also wants to phase out some of the battle equipment that the public has only begun to recognize. The M1A1 tank as well as the Bradley fighting vehicle, both hardy workhorses in the gulf, will no longer be produced. Assembly lines for the AH-64 Apache and AH-1S Cobra helicopters, so efficient in the fighting, will close; the Army wants a new heavy battle tank and a high-tech helicopter instead. The Navy will eliminate or scale back some weapons designed for battling the Soviets, including its Trident SLBM submarine program and its hunter-killer Seawolf submarine procurement, and reduce its overall carrier group strength from 13 to 12. Increased costs will almost certainly force the Air Force to cut its proposed purchase of 120 C-17 transport planes.<br />
//<br />
.<br />
also<br />
.<br />
//<br />
Our Overstuffed Armed Forces: Reasons to Cut More<br />
Lawrence J. Korb<br />
From Foreign Affairs, November/December 1995:<br />
&gt;<br />
Despite their differences, President Clinton and the Republican-controlled Congress have agreed on two things. The first is that the federal deficit should be eliminated by slashing federal spending rather than increasing taxes; indeed, both sides want to cut taxes. They have also agreed that projected levels of defense spending will not be part of any deficit reduction package. In fact, both the administration and Congress have called for increases for defense for the rest of the decade. In 1996 and 1997 alone Congress wants to add $20 billion to what the Pentagon requested, and it has established firewalls between defense and nondefense areas of the budget so that funds cannot be shifted to cushion cuts in social programs. Under the terms of the joint budget resolution Congress adopted in June, between 1995 and 2002 domestic discretionary funding will fall from $248 billion to $218 billion while military expenditures will rise from $262 billion to $281 billion.&lt;<br />
//<br />
<a href="http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19951101faessay5076/lawrence-j-korb/our-overstuffed-armed-forces-reasons-to-cut-more.html" rel="nofollow">Foreign Affairs - Our Overstuffed Armed Forces: Reasons to Cut More - Lawrence J. Korb</a><br />
.<br />
.<br />
You know, if you are going to rail against someone, at least have your facts right.</p>
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		<title>By: rose83</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/11/25/gates-a-done-deal/comment-page-2/#comment-24646</link>
		<dc:creator>rose83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=8557#comment-24646</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why should we separate Hillary from her husband? She largely ran on her experience as First Lady. That pretty much ties her to Bill&#039;s administration.&lt;/i&gt;
--
I think she should be linked to the Clinton Administration as much as any senior advisor. In this case, a senior advisor who went on to build a record of experience in military affairs after leaving the WH. (I was just speaking with someone recently who said that her knowledge of the military is superior to her husband&#039;s.) And I believe HRC has already built some very good relations with elements of the military, and having someone in that job who is focused on peoples&#039; welfare would be excellent. She would get personnel issues, and I imagine that would quickly enhance her popularity. She might also have been able to finally start addressing the problem of sexual violence. 
--
I understand that popularity and internal politics are important, but isn&#039;t ruling out HRC because of her last name kind of like what you&#039;re criticizing her husband for doing, when he promoted yes men? Maybe appointing on the basis of merit would be the best approach. If she were a great Secretary of Defense, she would eventually become popular. And even the most popular person will quickly become hated if they&#039;re incompetent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Why should we separate Hillary from her husband? She largely ran on her experience as First Lady. That pretty much ties her to Bill's administration.</i><br />
--<br />
I think she should be linked to the Clinton Administration as much as any senior advisor. In this case, a senior advisor who went on to build a record of experience in military affairs after leaving the WH. (I was just speaking with someone recently who said that her knowledge of the military is superior to her husband's.) And I believe HRC has already built some very good relations with elements of the military, and having someone in that job who is focused on peoples' welfare would be excellent. She would get personnel issues, and I imagine that would quickly enhance her popularity. She might also have been able to finally start addressing the problem of sexual violence.<br />
--<br />
I understand that popularity and internal politics are important, but isn't ruling out HRC because of her last name kind of like what you're criticizing her husband for doing, when he promoted yes men? Maybe appointing on the basis of merit would be the best approach. If she were a great Secretary of Defense, she would eventually become popular. And even the most popular person will quickly become hated if they're incompetent.</p>
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