Re: Waxman-Dingell Showdown

nibblybits
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Problem with what you are saying is that if the initial reports are to be believed it was a very close election. Its hard for me to believe that they knew EVERY vote as it would be cast. Conversely if he Senate Dems HAD kicked Lieberman out there may have been a blowback from blue dogs who would vote to keep Dingell. Its hard to just dismiss out of hand that it had NO impact

sgw, you are on the wrong trail, ascribing this in any way to Lieberman. (You might be a little obsessed there.) Lieberman and the Senate had NOTHING to do with this. The plan to take over Energy has been percolating for a long time, because Obama's agenda makes that committee the most important on the Hill. It covers energy, environment, health care and telecommunications. Don't you think Pelosi and Waxman want control of that critical committee rather than leave it in the hands of someone who's used to taking naps half the time? (And Waxman foresees no action in Oversight anymore, now that his own party has taken over the executive branch.)
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This was a power play, not a commentary on Dingell or Lieberman or anyone else.

Hey, that's pretty neat, sgwhiteinfla.
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How did he get elected to help run our country?
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Because he's tall and comfortable in crowds.
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Nobody really believes that you get to the top of politics through sheer mental might. I mean, really, Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay?

SG -- I get it the significance of this I am only posing that there may be a reason for this stunning move that is beyond blow back for Lieberman. Waxman is absolutely the best man for the job and Pelosi orchestrated this coup because with Dingell at the helm the ability to come up with the creative legislation that will be needed to succeed is difficult to imagine. I think this is just more about putting the people in place that have the talent and motivation to succeed. I also just find it striking that the only supposed punishment doe Lieberman was lost of the environment and public works sub-committee, considering that they will also be crucial to the energy agenda and infrastructure based economic stimulus clearly Obama doesn't want him there to gum up the works of his major initiative.
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And to Lieberman's lack of contrition -- he's just trying to save face this is a typical Washington practice. When he reiterated that Obama was chiefly responsible for his retention of the Homeland gavel he was once again acknowledging where his bread is buttered.

No, we knew it was gonna be close. But Waxman also knew he had the votes. If you had been following this like I have, the difference between the two whip groups couldn't have been more stark.
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Waxman laid the groundwork by giving quietly to campaigns for months. When he made the play, it was with Pelosi's blessing. Dingell was caught off guard. His first calls were to K Street lobbyists and the Michigan delegates. He also called the most senior congresspeople, the other committee chairmen who believe in seniority. Dingell sent out very public announcements about his whip team and his support. He showed his high-profile names. Waxman did none of these things. His whip operation was very quiet, mostly because HE HAD THE VOTES. Dingell sounded desperate the past couple weeks. Waxman said nothing. He wasn't worried because he had the votes.

sgw, I really do think you are becoming a bit obsessed about Lieberman. The Waxman coup has been a long time in the making.

nibbly
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I just remember how Pelosi "orchestrated" Murtha's run against Hoyer. That didnt turn out so well did it?

nibblybits - good for being right, but you're rubbing it in a bit.

This is good news.
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I have yet to hear a convincing argument for why Dingell should keep his seat. It does not matter to me how many times he votes with the Democratic caucus - it matters to me how well he performed as chairman. By that standard I have been less than impressed with him.
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This is why I have been opposed to Lieberman keeping his gavels: he has been completely - CRIMINALLY - incompetent as chairman of his committees; especially the one that he was allowed to keep. No questions, no hearings, no investigations during the most corrupt, the most sinisterly unconstitutional administration in the history of this nation. He is a quisling of the highest order.
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But now that he is overseeing a Democratic administration we can look forward to his scolding and concern-trolling until his term is expired and he takes a cushy job as a Washington lobbyist.

hickory
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I know that and I said earlier today on another thread that Waxman SHOULD get the chair. Its not about that. Its about the Democrats in Congress doing something that they never really do. And in light of the fact that Waxman won by all of 2 points its just hard for me to sit here and say they knew they had the votes for sure. Another reason I don't believe it is this nugget.
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again from kagroX
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And, we are quite properly reminded by CQ Politics:
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In addition, five committee chairmen who usually serve on the steering committee could not vote because the caucus has not yet ratified them. They might have tipped the balance to Dingell.
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Very true. Missing from the rolls of the Steering Committee were the Chairs of the Ways & Means, Financial Services, Appropriations and, of course, Energy & Commerce Committees, who sit on Steering by virtue of their positions. Not sure who the fifth missing chair was. But sitting committee chairmen tend, all things considered, to have a vested interest in protecting the primacy of the seniority system. It's possible that with just a three vote margin in yesterday's vote, having a full slate at the Steering Committee (minus the E&C slot, I guess) could have changed the outcome, and possibly colored this vote very differently. The Steering Committee's decision surely fed a feeling of momentum for Waxman that might not have been there otherwise

Elvis – Are Newtie and Delay really stupid, or just evil? They seem able to concoct a false, but pretty decent argument on the spot explaining the end of civilization that would result from anything any Democrat proposes. Isn't that (dubious) talent what got them to the top of the garbage heap?

terrapinion - agreed, but competence doesn't seem to be the general critieria for chairmanship. It's very rare that it isn't based on seniority.

SG- you don't jump all over me so I am clearly not going to jump all over you. I can understand why you are looking for a Lieberman connections in unfolding events because he behaved so badly that there just has to be a better reason than just post-partisanship or civility explain why they didn't beat him down for it. but the truth is the game is long and I don't think in the long run he has gotten away with it. The conversations that take place in public are not what matters -- give it time and watch his actions down the road and you will see a legislatively more subdued Lieberman.

kathy: I'm not trying to 'rub it in'; I just think it's important to know what is going on, and why and how.
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As for Murtha, sgw is right. She tried to shove a very unpopular guy into the race, just because he was hers. Didn't work. But that was a number of years ago, and I think she's managed to accumulate a bit more power. It helps that Waxman is just a better guy than Murtha (or Dingell).

Dee
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LOL a legislatively more subdued Lieberman??? Really? OK we will truly wait on that one
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roll:
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lol

I'm not sure that the fact that the vote was close means anything. I defer to nibbly who offers a very logical argument. The final votes can be hedged, groomed, fixed, knowing all the while what the outcome will be. They do that you know.

kathy - You wrote: "...competence doesn't seem to be the general critieria for chairmanship. It's very rare that it isn't based on seniority."

Precisely. It is the seniority-based system that rubs me the wrong way. But, whatever, today was a good day. I will take my pleasures as they come.

JNS
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Thanks and Drats, foiled again!
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Are Newtie and Delay really stupid, or just evil?
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Oh, trying to get me with a trick question, are you? Well, I did OK on the SATs-- I pick (c): "both (a) and (b)."
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They seem able to concoct a false, but pretty decent argument on the spot explaining the end of civilization that would result from anything any Democrat proposes.
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Well, sure, but it's not all that hard. It just as to persuade Sarah Palins, Palin cultists, and give Deborah Howell types something to repeat. We're not talking about concocting Nash equilibrium, here. Just something that heightens and plays on resentment. That stuff comes naturally to us humans.
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Here is DeLay on Colbert. Here is DeLay issuing a press release praising Colbert for ferreting out Robert Greenwald's nefarious America-hating motivations.

SG: It looks to me like we're batting .500 on key committee chair positions. Batting .500 is pretty good. Heck a .250 hitter in the majors is making more than a million a year.
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Now I'm going to have look in the Volunteer football archives to determine your real identity.
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I am seriously thinking about relocating to CT so I can vote again Lieberman in 2010.

Thanks JNS.

Andy
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DON'T DO IT LOL
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Im a nobody, I didnt even make it into the archives

Elvis
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Delay is truly a dumbazz. Newt is just smart enough to be dangerous. I think I would much rather have Delay still in office because NOBODY believes anything he says anymore