Would It Have Killed Them to Fly Commercial?

Would It Have Killed Them to Fly Commercial?
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Yes. All rich people are deathly allergic to coach seating.

They couldn't even jet pool?

That's awesomely... dumb. From every possible perspective except that of someone who's blind to reality and convinced of their own righteousness.

These guys are doomed to failure. Except maybe Ford. This is just hubris. Like the AIG guys spending all of that money on a retreat. Why?
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The people of the US give you a break and you spit in their faces. They'll be lucky to ever see one red cent.

Rick Wagoner's metaphorical head on a pike has to be a non negotiable provision of a bail out.

His VP Bob "Global Warming is a crock of sh--" Lutz needs to go with him. Lutz is the product czar at GM. That is the problem. They need to line up everybody with a key to the executive bathroom and tell them to pack up and go.

This is why the auto industry must be nationalized temporarily. These people are preternaturally dishonest...they must be fired and the boards dismissed.

KT,

Wouldn't flying commercial have shown some fore thought? Like maybe bringing up the workers and union reps to plead the case with them.

Well, yeah, but let's not demagogue the issue into a universal pink slip for all UAW members. As far as I can tell, opposition to the loan guarantees is aimed largely at union workers – hence Mittens' urging of a Chapter 11 solution. That, in turn, is just a sour grapes response from the GOP. When the focus turns to "labor costs" it's usually a cover story for stockholder greed.

To add to FlownOver's point-- It's very misleading to blame unions for the industry's productivity problems: “[E]conomist Barry T. Hirsch, in a survey of the literature on this topic (chapter 7 of this excellent book), recently wrote that ‘[t]he empirical evidence does not allow one to infer a precise estimate of the average union productivity effect, but my assessment of existing evidence is that the average union effect is very close to zero, and as likely to be somewhat negative as somewhat positive.'”
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It's worse than stockholder greed-- it's the greed of the board and management. Not that the two can't go hand in hand, but it's primarily the latter. Stockholders care, or should care, about productivity, not alienating the company's rank and file employees.

I know we like to see at as arrogance and hubris etc. But this is the real problem with the auto industry and big business in general -- their is a disconnect between them and everyone else. And I know this might sound socialist to my friends on the right but I think it might have something to do with the difference in pay. How can someone who makes 250 times what you do have any clue how you see the world and what matters to you. They came in private jets because they had no sense that it mattered. If I was this management team the first thing I would do when I got home is hire me my own personal Joe the plumber --- okay maybe not that idiot Sam.

By the way, we were all quite whiny, with good reason, when the spam/nanny mod thing here was out of control. Thanks to KT and the High Sheriffs for making things run more smoothly. And "ass" to you all!

It's not just the union workers, even if that were a valid concern. What's going to happen to all the pensioners when chapter 11 "re-structures" the debt and all those people are dumped from the rolls with either a significantly reduced, or, more likely, non-existent retirement?

They can sell the jets but as long as they are making Chevy Aveos and Pontiac Vibes it won't help.

pirate wench --

Let them eat stock.

CNN is pushing the corporate agenda. They said that the execs had no choice. Corporate policy is that they fly in the corporate jets for "their safety".

"How can someone who makes 250 times what you do have any clue how you see the world and what matters to you. They came in private jets because they had no sense that it mattered." - Dee in MD
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And there you have it. There are a mess of people out in flyover country (like me, for instance) who want to see somebody PUNISHED for urinating their jobs away. Haircuts, mud-baths, and private jets are like a red rag to a bull.

KT -- I know this is a little off topic but in try8ng to get some incite into the minds of your colleagues why do they in one breath admit that they don't understand why Obama would make a certain choice and then with the next breath say he's making a mistake. Is it some sort of innate position that if they are unable to comprehend something it should be rejected? Present company excluded of course.

I remember when the automakers were looking for government financial help back in the early 80's. The executives from GM and Ford showed up at the White House in the usual stretch black limousines. Lee Iacocca and the Chrysler executives showed up in a four-seater Dodge Omni. What a great photo op!

I think if and when those people lose their jobs and pensions...people might get to burning stuff down. I know I'd seriously consider it.
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Ass

CNN is pushing the corporate agenda. They said that the execs had no choice. Corporate policy is that they fly in the corporate jets for "their safety".

What are they going to get mugged on the monorail at the Detroit airport?

All I know Dee is that David Broder came out against Hillary Clinton today, which means she is the right pick. David Broder is the Bill Kristol of the centrist class. He is almost always wrong. Perhaps the Bush bounce is going to happen in December though.

Trifecta - CNN can say what they want, but that sort of "corporate policy" is called cronyism (and I am sure the CNN/Time/Warner whoever they are management do it too). They want to fly in jets, so they get a policy written - by the people who work for them, of course - that they have to fly in jets. They'll get their insurance companies, who get fat premiums from them, to back it up. Then they go to board meetings for other companies in their jets and recommend that those CEOs fly in jets too. Kind of how they all take boards seats on each others' boards, and then recommend that management get more compensation or a better severance package - then those deals are held up by their own executive compensation committees as evidence of their own need for a better package. Round and round it goes.

Trifecta again - hear, hear re Broder. Not only wrong, but willfully, petulantly wrong.

The main thing I have against Clinton as SoS right now is that I cannot bear the idea of MoDo frothing about it every couple of days.

Hey - we could punish Broder for everybody losing their jobs! It'd be a win-win.

What are they going to get mugged on the monorail at the Detroit airport?
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With all the anger around here, I wouldn't be suprised if someone kidnapped them and forced them to clean out a septic tank.
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Seriously. You guys are frothing at the mouth.
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It's not like the Big 3 have been doing extremely successful at the expense of everyone else. The Big 3 have been losing market share since the 70's. They knew they were losing. They just failed to do anything about it. Greed would have dictated they do something to make more money, and yet they keep losing.
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Wall Street became greedy. The Big 3 became complacent.