John McCain Sleeps Like A Baby

As a Democrat, I'm glad this version of John McCain was not much in evidence during the campaign.
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Also, your last post was very amusing Michael - or, as SP would say, "very amusing was your last post Michael also."

That "sleeps like a baby" joke is old. Here, I wrote him a better one: "I slept like my campaign - dozing, then suspended, then comatose." Do I have to do everything myself?

kathy
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I am struggling here. Did you watch the lee atwater story? lol I want to discuss it but nobody seemed to watch it

pourme
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I believe he said the same joke in 2000, literally

Take everything with a grain of salt
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/12/obama-campaign-a-lot-of-d_n_143222.html

Is this in bad taste: "I slept like Bristol. Faking it, then out the window and up to no good."

Mac is back! http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1739251,00.html

ZZZZZZZZ please wake me when there's news to discuss.

sg:
nope - don't know which Lee Atwater story. on Jay Leno maybe? Unfortunately I don't have speakers, so I have to read. Give me a URL if you find one.

kathy
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pbs did a special on Lee Atwater about how he rose through the ranks and the dirty tactics he brought to the forefront of Republican politics and then how cancer took him early on in life and he denounced all that he had become and done. It was a very interesting and complex story which I had only the slightest knowledge of. You always hear about Lee Atwater being the precursor to Karl Rove but the special connected the dots masterfully. I will try to find a link but this was an hour and a half special so I doubt any clip will do any good

sg - I've been sort of surprised at the number of Clinton folk that seem to be peopling the speculation lists. (First Read has a pretty thorough list. Link to AP list there, and Ambinder has been collecting them over time). It makes sense for them to be on transition lists, but not necessarily for the actual jobs. But I wonder if a Clinton partisan is pushing these names into the arena (as with Christopher)
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It seems silly to have Al Gore out there on lists as SOS or energy (more plausible than SOS). I hope he gets appointed as some overall climate tsar or climate envoy or negotiator.

(Roused from deep slumber..copious yawn)
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MS -- How much coverage did the New England Patriots get in Sports Illustrated after the NY Giants won Super Bowl XLII?
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McCain/Palin lost the 2008 preisdential election. It's over, it's done. Let's move on, please.

sg - ah. Being ancient I remember Atwater, and have read about his influence on Rove (starting when Rove was in college, I think?). Atwater's conversion late in life was genuine and moving. Too bad it couldn't have come a few years earlier (the conversion, not the end of his life)

By the way in a indirect way the Atwater special also pointed out how liberal bloggers in this election helped to take away the effectiveness of Atwater like tactics. He like to overwhelm the MSM with "leaked" stories preying on their fears of being scooped and knowing full well that they wouldn't do much fact checking on the smears before they released the stories as legitimate. It gave an in depth look at how Atwater took down several politicians most notably Bob Dole who for all intents and purposes should have PWNED Bush 41 and Mike Dukakis and it makes a strong case that if Atwater had not gotten cancer that Bill Clinton might not have stood a chance in 1992. Like I said very intersting stuff

Andy - in general I agree with you, but there's a whole lot of stuff in the news at the moment about "whither the GOP," and this is just a fluffy part of that. Hey, it gives us a new thread to work with.

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sgwhite -
I think the role bloggers played in this election has yet to be explored. On the one hand, the extremists (of any stripe) had access to everybody, but their loose grip on reality made the Atwater stuff harder to get out to the MSM as a story to be taken seriously. There were more scurrilous rumors, but more ways to check them out.
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And then the fact that the left are generally more reality-based than the right also tilted the narrative away from the right wing crazies as far as the MSM was concerned.

kathy
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I am just old enough to remember the name. And I remember the dirty pool somewhat against Dole. But to see the actual footage from back in the day and then have it put into context now by the likes of Bob Novak and Johnathan Alter and others was just amazing. Bob Novak admitted that Atwater played him several times. It also shows what happens when you decide to not respond to smears. I never remembered the smear against Dukakis that he didnt want kids to say the I also never knew that Atwater was on the board of directors for Howard University at one time until the students staged mass protests and had him kicked off. I also never knew he had a lot of black friends that he played the blues with. I don't fancy myself a historian but I did feel pretty uninformed after watching it. But I think that a lot of poeple would feel that way after watching

kathy
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I am just old enough to remember the name. And I remember the dirty pool somewhat against Dole. But to see the actual footage from back in the day and then have it put into context now by the likes of Bob Novak and Johnathan Alter and others was just amazing. Bob Novak admitted that Atwater played him several times. It also shows what happens when you decide to not respond to smears. I never remembered the smear against Dukakis that he didnt want kids to say the pledge of allegiance. I also never knew that Atwater was on the board of directors for Howard University at one time until the students staged m@ss protests and had him kicked off. I also never knew he had a lot of black friends that he played the blues with. I don't fancy myself a historian but I did feel pretty uninformed after watching it. But I think that a lot of poeple would feel that way after watching

The Lee Atwater doc was fabulous.

And it does help explain the Repubs fall from grace. Little by little, voters moved away from both parties and became "independent" due to the nastiness coming out of the GOP.

When Dems started fronting centrist, non-idealogical candidates, the pendulum swung in our direction.

Anybody else cringe watching John McCain on the Tonight Show? He was a sad pathetic broken figure. I thought he was about to break down in tears at any moment.

southernbell,
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I have to say that I disagree with your @ssement of why Dems are winning now. The one prevailing meme from the documentary was that the people Atwater took down NEVER stood up for themselves or at least they didnt in a meaningful way. After all this time i would bet I am not in the minority of people who never knew that Dukakis' controversial prison furlough program which brought about the Willie Horton ad was modeled after RONALD REAGAN'S furlough program in California. If he would have come out and said that it would have took a lot of the steam out of that story. But he and Dole and the Jewish guy that he beat because the guy "didnt believe in Jesus" all just stood there as the bus came rumbling right at them. The fact that Dems are now responding forcefully to all smears in my mind is the reason why we are having more success. Thats just my opinion on the matter.

Big media matt points out that "winning now" is a misnomer. The Democrats have pretty much been winning more votes than the Republicans.

"Atwater's conversion late in life was genuine and moving."

Actually, the PBS show made it seem like Atwater's "conversion" was anything but genuine.

What skinker said
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When Ed Rollins gave the story about Atwater saying he had read his bible and then after he died his wife told Rollins that it was still in the plastic never opened, I think that pretty much obliterated that meme. I think he might have been somewhat regretful about some of the things he said and did but I also think a lot of that regret came from the fact that he was faced with his own mortality. On the special they said he had rabbis, witchdoctors, buddhist etc outside his door and he would tell all of them he was on board to hedge his bets. I won't presume to say definitely if he ever truly converted to christianity but the special made it look like it was all spin.