The GOP's Big Hispanic Problem

Perhaps, MS, you would like to discuss the GOP's even bigger Black American problem?
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"the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party."

GOP, please please please pick your base over being a national party. i would love to be able to see the Republican Party completely disintegrate during my lifetime.

MS, surely you might care to comment on that really, really, really large elephant stinding behind your right shoulder while you pontificate on a hispanic problem?
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I think that 96% to 4% is a wee bit more disconcerting than a 60% to 40% split in the hispanic vote.
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Either you don't care (reflecting ignorance), or you actually think the Black community is 96% libera (also reflecting ignorance).
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Choose yer weapon...

The GOP won't get the Latino vote back because the only reason they had it to begin with is because most Latinos never saw the racisim from the Republican party until the immigration issue came up. It was ok as long as Rush was making jokes about and spewing venom at black folks. But when he turned his ire at illegal immigrants and in the same kinds of vile venemous terms and nobody called him on it and instead the vast majority of the Republican party embraced guys like Rush and Lou Dobbs then the hispanics had an epiphany. The truth now isnt whether the GOP can get them back because I think thats an impossibility. The truth now is if they can save any of the small majority that they garnered in tis election cycle. Mel Martinez himself better be careful in his next election because he might have lost some votes for stumping with McCain. The saddest part is most of these so called conservative think tanks are now saying that McCain didnt lose because he was too conservative, but instead lost because he wasn't conservative enough. In their infinite wisdom they actually thought he should have been hitting Obama on immigration. They seriously just don't have a clue anymore. What might crush them though is if they actually put Michael Steele up for the chair of the RNC which many people are buzzing about and then he doesnt get it. Thats going to look very bad considering they are trying to use Steele as a poster child to say that black folks have a place in the Republican party. I can't wait to see how THAT turns out.

What Prop 181 did for the republican party in California the immigration "debate" did for the republicans nationaly.
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This was a nice touch MS-"With immigration reform likely to return to the table again next year, the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party."
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Not even a passing nod to the idea that the republicans have a core belief. Just a purely political calculation. I think you are right.

(repost to beat the mods)
What Prop 181 did for the republican party in California the immigration "debate" did for the republicans nationaly.
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This was a nice touch MS-"With immigration reform likely to return to the table again next year, the Republican Party may find itself forced to choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party."
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Not even a pa$$ing nod to the idea that the republicans have a core belief. Just a purely political calculation. I think you are right.

Republicans need to muzzle the racists on talk radio. But that's not happening anytime soon.
¡Bienvenidos al Partido Demócrata, hermanos!

Well, 53_3, you're absolutely right that that is something worth talking about, but in fairness to MS, the GOP had hoped to peel off a large number of Hispanic voters.
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Interesting post, MS. Data and perspectives-- good stuff!
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I think that the GOP turned off _everybody_ with its know-nothingism, disproportionately minorities. Because the party has been so atrocious of late, all they have to do is lurch toward sanity to ameliorate their problems. Unfortunately, they're promoting Cantors and their ilk. A national party no more, a white party once again.

I don't know you guys. I just think it's an ingrown GOP thing right now.
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Their hands are too shaky to draw that line from point A to point B. You know, connect the dots.
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It's even simpler than checkers...

shoulda been small MINORITY
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not having preview sux

> Republicans need to muzzle the racists on talk radio.
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If they wanted to survive, yes. But not all of us want them to survive, as an entity. Let the intolerant, racists b@stards wither and die.

In the spirit of cooperation, I'm going to throw out a rough strategic sketch for how the GOP can get its groove back:

(1) Stop being vile, abhorrent d0uchebags that infect everything they touch with a rotting disease.

(2) Profit.

Who is the go to republican for MSNBC? Pat Buchannan. And that man drips with hatred for Hispanics. And Pat speaks for a lot of that party.

I think that the very divisive rhetoric of the immigration debate set a very bad tone for our brand as Republicans

The funny thing is that John McCain had a clear choice going into his campaign. The number of people you can woo with hate is limited. They may be vocal but they don't speak for most Americans.

The only downside, is that as inevitable demographic shifts continue, the folks who embrace xenophobia are going to feel more marginalzed and hence more vocal. They're going to end up being forced from influence by sheer embarasment.

The trick that Dean/Obama pulled off in the election was to appeal to blacks and hispanics in a style markedly different from old-school Democratic interest group politics. He got 'em with pragmatism instead of activism. I think that was a function of the election being a firing of Bush, however, and I doubt it can be sustained over time when the Administration will have to vote up or down on a series of issues. The McCain couldn't label and define Obama, but over time events will.

PNNTO I seriously don't get how Pat Buchannan has become this great pundit for MSNBC. It was only because Tweety loves the guy that he stopped him from totally throwing away his miraculous career about a week ago when Pat was about to double down on the "Colin Powell endorsed Obama because he is black" meme. And true to form he looked genuinely dissappointed that Tweety didnt allow him to jump all the way off that clip. By the way by happenstance I found a few "the young turk" clips today about times that rachel maddow PWNED Joe Scarborough and since I know some folks hate Joe just as much as I do I figured I would share.
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enjoy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nFpK-_A4Ws
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I don't have the link, but didn't JC Watts just write that the bigger problem is what's still left in the GOP -- older white guys?

Elvis:
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Yes, in a sense you are right, but when you get down to it, like sg said, the common denominator is bigotry - a big sell in the GOP.
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It's a wonder to me that nearly all minotities don't abandon the GOP, but as they say, silence is golden.
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For the GOP that is...

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Buchannon has a long, loooong history with the old "Patriot Movement", Neo-Nazis and other sordid groups in the old days. One of the things Buchannon was known for was giving the Nazi salute to Bo Greitz at a checkpoint surrounding Ruby Ridge.
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He's one I would definatly say needs to go...

This is just an aspect of a bigger rift between the business/hawk wing of the GOP and the know-nothing Christianist wing.
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The business and hawk factions can always get along, because the defense industry is big business and the military is employed (in part) to promote a favorable business climate (eg to keep the oil flowing).
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So the problem with this formulation: choose between its conservative base and its future as a national party is that you need to define what you mean by conservative. There is not just one base in the GOP. Which faction is the conservative one? I would argue that the Christianist wing is extremist or reactionary, not conservative.

Throughout the campaign season, we heard many spins - about how Obama couldn't win without the evangelical vote. Not without the majority of the white vote. Not without the Florida's Jewish vote - and not without subjugating our USA sovereignty to - and deferring decisions that intimately affect our critical foreign and national security interests to, the whims and intransigence a foreign power, Israel.

Guess what: The poll results are out and the exit polls tell a different story:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/elections/national/Young_voters_not_essential_to_Obama_win.html

Obama did not get a majority of the white vote. But he got a majority of the youth vote of the 18 to 30 year olds. And even without the youth vote, Obama would have won anyway. [And those contemplating running for the presidency of our USA in the future may as well note that the hard-working, very hard-working Americans, white Americans (like those American_Indian_native-hating hillbillies of Pennsylvania, Alabama and Alaska) will be a minority in a few generations.]

Obama could have won without the conservative evangelicals - and he did.
[I doubt that Obama got the vote of the Rev Rick Warren and followers of the Saddleback Church of southern California. And that is OK with Americans.]

Neither Obama nor Clinton could have won without a majority of the black vote.

In fact, Obama could have won without a single Jewish vote - anywhere. Something for future presidential candidates to remember as they pander to the demographic. [And certainly when beleaguered, newly poor American citizens want to know why American tax-payers must pay EACH citizen of the foreign country of Israel (but not our starving 30 million kids) as much as US$2,000 EVERY year.]

As we debate this issue here is a post from today over there on bastion of conservatism website national review's the Corner. I am telling you that they are going to make their relationship with hispanics WORSE due to this loss instead of better
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http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Nzc0OWRhY2RkMDNjYmExYTExNjhiOTUyZGYxYmI5NTY=

I think this article is not broad enough. The GOP has managed to drive away Hispanics, Blacks, woman and in this election the working class. How exactly do the Republicans suppose they will continue to survive as a national party unless they broaden themselves? Yes they can continue to suck up after the religious right and doom themselves as being a merely regional party in the processes. Or they can go and re-examin their party platform and start broadening their appeal. I still remember the Republican Convention, old, religious and white. The path to the White House is not paved via that dying demographic.

I always looked at conservatism as somewhat like this:
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1. Smaller government
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2. Lower taxes
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3. Pro-Business
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4. Tradition-oreinted (but being smart enough to avoid the continuation of what is rather dimly euphemized as "nativism".
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I honestly think that MS and others hould take up the issue of separating hatred from conservatism.
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And that is the core of the problem here.