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	<title>Comments on: Re: Ooof</title>
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	<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/</link>
	<description>A blog about politics.</description>
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		<title>By: mickeymusing</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14774</link>
		<dc:creator>mickeymusing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 21:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14774</guid>
		<description>#  Joe Bftsplk @12 and newfloridian,

My earlier post is hung up, but wanted to just point out that narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder are part of the same cluster (cluster B), along with anti-social personality disorder in the DSM diagnostic manual because they share similar features, most notably a lack of empathy, and there can be considerable overlap in presentation.  Cluster B personalities are over-represented in the fields of politics and banking, so if she is someone with cluster B traits, she will feel very much at home in DC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#  Joe Bftsplk @12 and newfloridian,</p>
<p>My earlier post is hung up, but wanted to just point out that narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder are part of the same cluster (cluster B), along with anti-social personality disorder in the DSM diagnostic manual because they share similar features, most notably a lack of empathy, and there can be considerable overlap in presentation.  Cluster B personalities are over-represented in the fields of politics and banking, so if she is someone with cluster B traits, she will feel very much at home in DC.</p>
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		<title>By: mickeymusing</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14538</link>
		<dc:creator>mickeymusing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14538</guid>
		<description>newfloridian @4

Thank you for pointing that out. People throw the term &quot;narcissist&quot; out all the time in reference to Palin, but it could be more serious than that. We could really be talking about someone with more than just an overly developed ego here. She appears to have some classic NPD traits: Believes she deserves recognition and glory without commensurate achievement; Unable to empathize with others or modify her behavior to protect others (Bristol&#039;s pregnancy was merely a speed bump on her way to national attention); most frightening of all her &quot;narcissistic rage,&quot; which has been repeatedly demonstrated in her obsessive and vindictive efforts to destroy the lives or careers of people who have crossed her--frequently totally out proportion to the actual slight. Several sources close to her have noted that she does not like to be around people who are smarter than she is--the one area where her fragile self-image is displayed. I think she has shown us all very clearly that not only is she not presidential material, she is very possibly dangerously narcissistic--imagine if she decides to apply her obsessive narcissistic rage to a rogue country who she perceives has slighted her. I also think people are underestimating the manipulative skills of people like this and mistakenly believe her incompetence will be her undoing.  She has had a taste of national celebrity now and she believes it is her birthright. She won&#039;t quietly go away. She would rather completely destroy the party than give up the spotlight. 

An argument could be made that there are a lot of people with personality disorders in the government, so why should she be singled out? I think it is because, probably due to her inexperience, she lacks the finesse and skills most troubled politicians develop to make them more acceptable to the public. Part of this lack of finesse means she has been very foolish and ham-fisted in how she engages in governance and the public record now documents that she clearly has a penchant for abusing her power and making the lives of people around her miserable. If that&#039;s what the Republicans decide they want, more power to &#039;em. 

Read this on a blog somewhere and think it&#039;s fitting: Supreme confidence not backed by demonstrable knowledge or ability is not a sign of great leadership. It is a sign of mental illness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>newfloridian @4</p>
<p>Thank you for pointing that out. People throw the term "narcissist" out all the time in reference to Palin, but it could be more serious than that. We could really be talking about someone with more than just an overly developed ego here. She appears to have some classic NPD traits: Believes she deserves recognition and glory without commensurate achievement; Unable to empathize with others or modify her behavior to protect others (Bristol's pregnancy was merely a speed bump on her way to national attention); most frightening of all her "narcissistic rage," which has been repeatedly demonstrated in her obsessive and vindictive efforts to destroy the lives or careers of people who have crossed her--frequently totally out proportion to the actual slight. Several sources close to her have noted that she does not like to be around people who are smarter than she is--the one area where her fragile self-image is displayed. I think she has shown us all very clearly that not only is she not presidential material, she is very possibly dangerously narcissistic--imagine if she decides to apply her obsessive narcissistic rage to a rogue country who she perceives has slighted her. I also think people are underestimating the manipulative skills of people like this and mistakenly believe her incompetence will be her undoing.  She has had a taste of national celebrity now and she believes it is her birthright. She won't quietly go away. She would rather completely destroy the party than give up the spotlight. </p>
<p>An argument could be made that there are a lot of people with personality disorders in the government, so why should she be singled out? I think it is because, probably due to her inexperience, she lacks the finesse and skills most troubled politicians develop to make them more acceptable to the public. Part of this lack of finesse means she has been very foolish and ham-fisted in how she engages in governance and the public record now documents that she clearly has a penchant for abusing her power and making the lives of people around her miserable. If that's what the Republicans decide they want, more power to 'em. </p>
<p>Read this on a blog somewhere and think it's fitting: Supreme confidence not backed by demonstrable knowledge or ability is not a sign of great leadership. It is a sign of mental illness.</p>
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		<title>By: furpurrson</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14390</link>
		<dc:creator>furpurrson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14390</guid>
		<description>Classic. Just classic. Apply the rules to the other side with the biggest hammer you can find, but scream and whine when someone tries to apply them to you. 

Unfortunately, we haven&#039;t heard the last of Sarah Palin. I don&#039;t think she&#039;s stupid. I do think she&#039;s crazy - clinically delusional - and a religious fanatic who will choose the twisted tenets of her beliefs over rational thought every time. Willful ignorance in the face of hard fact is how a certain type of religious zealot operates. And that&#039;s why she appeals to the Religious Right, who have taken over and destroyed what used to be the Republican Party. 

After this election, in the interests of truth-in-labeling, the GOP should just rename itself the Fundamentalist Christian Party. (Separation of Church and State only when they can use it to hurt their opposition!) The moderates - what&#039;s left of them - can then try to re-form a Republican Party that they and their forebears would recognize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classic. Just classic. Apply the rules to the other side with the biggest hammer you can find, but scream and whine when someone tries to apply them to you. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, we haven't heard the last of Sarah Palin. I don't think she's stupid. I do think she's crazy - clinically delusional - and a religious fanatic who will choose the twisted tenets of her beliefs over rational thought every time. Willful ignorance in the face of hard fact is how a certain type of religious zealot operates. And that's why she appeals to the Religious Right, who have taken over and destroyed what used to be the Republican Party. </p>
<p>After this election, in the interests of truth-in-labeling, the GOP should just rename itself the Fundamentalist Christian Party. (Separation of Church and State only when they can use it to hurt their opposition!) The moderates - what's left of them - can then try to re-form a Republican Party that they and their forebears would recognize.</p>
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		<title>By: rose83</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14386</link>
		<dc:creator>rose83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14386</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m betting Palin will win. She can raise money and crowds. McCain... can trash her to all his former friends who have disowned him for picking her. It&#039;s not even a fair fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm betting Palin will win. She can raise money and crowds. McCain... can trash her to all his former friends who have disowned him for picking her. It's not even a fair fight.</p>
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		<title>By: cfukara</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14266</link>
		<dc:creator>cfukara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 04:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14266</guid>
		<description>pourmecoffee Says:
&lt;i&gt;That&#039;s like saying Levi violated Bristol&#039;s First Amendment right to say &quot;no.&quot;&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
ouch
OUCH!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pourmecoffee Says:<br />
<i>That's like saying Levi violated Bristol's First Amendment right to say "no.""</i><br />
ouch<br />
OUCH!</p>
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		<title>By: sgwhiteinfla</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14226</link>
		<dc:creator>sgwhiteinfla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14226</guid>
		<description>jay,
.
This won&#039;t be any kind of frontal assault or a war of words.  It will be a methodical dismantling of her career.  Its not money nor clout that McCain needs to accomplish this.  All he needs is friends and after 22 years in the Navy and 26 years in Congress you can best believe he has a lot of those.  We have already talked about how a lot of these people trashing him now will be welcoming him with open arms the minute he apologizes.  Again look at the leaks coming out now that mirror the leaks that came out against his fellow senators in the Keating five scandal.  By the way you do know that Jack Abramahoff was connected to the people who supposedly did the robocalls on McCain in SC in 2000 right?  Supposedly thats the whole reason he took up the cause, to throw him under the bus.  Again the lines in the sand will be pronounced if they lose.  I predict Sarah Palin will come out swinging through her various allies and surrogates throwing McCain under the bus.  He won&#039;t attack but like I said she will see a precipitous slide into obscurity by curiously seemingly unconnected events.  When you get a chance try to track down a copy of the book &quot;The Real McCain&quot;.  It talks about how seriously and how far McCain takes grudges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jay,<br />
.<br />
This won't be any kind of frontal assault or a war of words.  It will be a methodical dismantling of her career.  Its not money nor clout that McCain needs to accomplish this.  All he needs is friends and after 22 years in the Navy and 26 years in Congress you can best believe he has a lot of those.  We have already talked about how a lot of these people trashing him now will be welcoming him with open arms the minute he apologizes.  Again look at the leaks coming out now that mirror the leaks that came out against his fellow senators in the Keating five scandal.  By the way you do know that Jack Abramahoff was connected to the people who supposedly did the robocalls on McCain in SC in 2000 right?  Supposedly thats the whole reason he took up the cause, to throw him under the bus.  Again the lines in the sand will be pronounced if they lose.  I predict Sarah Palin will come out swinging through her various allies and surrogates throwing McCain under the bus.  He won't attack but like I said she will see a precipitous slide into obscurity by curiously seemingly unconnected events.  When you get a chance try to track down a copy of the book "The Real McCain".  It talks about how seriously and how far McCain takes grudges.</p>
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		<title>By: jayackroyd</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14203</link>
		<dc:creator>jayackroyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14203</guid>
		<description>Miller, not LeMay. LeMay ran with Wallace in &#039;68.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miller, not LeMay. LeMay ran with Wallace in '68.</p>
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		<title>By: jayackroyd</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-3/#comment-14189</link>
		<dc:creator>jayackroyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14189</guid>
		<description>I keep finding this fascinating.  
.
First, sg, what you&#039;re saying is that McCain will say &lt;i&gt;mean&lt;/i&gt; things about Palin.  That&#039;s all he&#039;s got. He has no money, no political capital, no future and no support. He&#039;s called in every chit, spent everything he had, and he&#039;s regarded by most of the party as only slightly less toxic than Bush.  Moreover, when he says mean things about her, she&#039;ll just respond be saying &quot;See!!  That&#039;s what he&#039;s like.  That&#039;s how he treated me, while I provided all the energy of the campaign.&quot; And, since McCain is an ill-tempered narcissist, that will work.
.
pour--The default frontrunner in a presidential contest is the previous election&#039;s VP, except in the event of a landslide (LeMay, Shriver, Ferraro). Yes, even Lieberman.  At the same time, this is remniscent of the post-1960 environment, with Goldwaterites taking over the convention and the party.  There was no real battle then.  It was his party.  It doesn&#039;t look like we will have a landslide like &#039;64/&#039;72/&#039;84 (note that &#039;64 was the least lopsided, AZ plus the deep south for Goldwater of the three with an absolute loon as VP).  So in this case, we have the absolute loon VP, a tighter race (TX will NOT vote for Obama) and a fractured party.  It doesn&#039;t really match up to anything.
.
Complicating this further is that the post-Civil Rights act conversion is now complete. It does not seem to have left a viable Republican party behind, as it is in feedback loop forcing the party ever further away from the American center.  From what I read above, it could well be that Palin plays a leading role in the party outside the coasts and the Beltway.  \
.
And she could do so by attacking them for being rich, elitist, corrupt DC politicians.  She could even show the rubes the pea--say they&#039;ve promised to stop abortion, to implement Christianist policies but somehow never gotten around to doing it.  Well, with the rubes support, she will. You betcha. Put the reg-a-lar people in charge for a change. Not this fakeroni that Nixon started and they&#039;ve kept going, not a fake man of the people, but a real woman, who is really of the people.
.
The bit about the clothes being like the stagecraft sets this up. The RNC put her on the stage, bought her clothes that weren&#039;t her, made her be something she is not because they are hucksters, part of the elite.  They&#039;ve let you (the rubes) down, in just the same way they&#039;ve let me down.
.
Could work. Especially if the religious hucksters back her play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep finding this fascinating.<br />
.<br />
First, sg, what you're saying is that McCain will say <i>mean</i> things about Palin.  That's all he's got. He has no money, no political capital, no future and no support. He's called in every chit, spent everything he had, and he's regarded by most of the party as only slightly less toxic than Bush.  Moreover, when he says mean things about her, she'll just respond be saying "See!!  That's what he's like.  That's how he treated me, while I provided all the energy of the campaign." And, since McCain is an ill-tempered narcissist, that will work.<br />
.<br />
pour--The default frontrunner in a presidential contest is the previous election's VP, except in the event of a landslide (LeMay, Shriver, Ferraro). Yes, even Lieberman.  At the same time, this is remniscent of the post-1960 environment, with Goldwaterites taking over the convention and the party.  There was no real battle then.  It was his party.  It doesn't look like we will have a landslide like '64/'72/'84 (note that '64 was the least lopsided, AZ plus the deep south for Goldwater of the three with an absolute loon as VP).  So in this case, we have the absolute loon VP, a tighter race (TX will NOT vote for Obama) and a fractured party.  It doesn't really match up to anything.<br />
.<br />
Complicating this further is that the post-Civil Rights act conversion is now complete. It does not seem to have left a viable Republican party behind, as it is in feedback loop forcing the party ever further away from the American center.  From what I read above, it could well be that Palin plays a leading role in the party outside the coasts and the Beltway.  \<br />
.<br />
And she could do so by attacking them for being rich, elitist, corrupt DC politicians.  She could even show the rubes the pea--say they've promised to stop abortion, to implement Christianist policies but somehow never gotten around to doing it.  Well, with the rubes support, she will. You betcha. Put the reg-a-lar people in charge for a change. Not this fakeroni that Nixon started and they've kept going, not a fake man of the people, but a real woman, who is really of the people.<br />
.<br />
The bit about the clothes being like the stagecraft sets this up. The RNC put her on the stage, bought her clothes that weren't her, made her be something she is not because they are hucksters, part of the elite.  They've let you (the rubes) down, in just the same way they've let me down.<br />
.<br />
Could work. Especially if the religious hucksters back her play.</p>
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		<title>By: pourmecoffee</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-2/#comment-14174</link>
		<dc:creator>pourmecoffee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14174</guid>
		<description>@sgwhite - An acquaintance of mine is the chair of the local Republican party. He tells me that the day after the election every single local Republican party, club, and candidate will have Sarah Palin as #1 on their speaker list because of the money she will bring in and that she could spend two years doing nothing but that. That&#039;s power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sgwhite - An acquaintance of mine is the chair of the local Republican party. He tells me that the day after the election every single local Republican party, club, and candidate will have Sarah Palin as #1 on their speaker list because of the money she will bring in and that she could spend two years doing nothing but that. That's power.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Pepper</title>
		<link>http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/10/31/re-ooof/comment-page-2/#comment-14171</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Pepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timeswampland.wordpress.com/?p=7722#comment-14171</guid>
		<description>I think &quot;social conservatives&quot; (more accurately, &quot;reactionaries&quot;) have forgotten that they need to appear at least borderline rational, so they can get some of the non-crazy vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think "social conservatives" (more accurately, "reactionaries") have forgotten that they need to appear at least borderline rational, so they can get some of the non-crazy vote.</p>
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