McCain has a Plumber; Obama has an Army
Or, rather, an Air Force pilot:
The convention in Denver was Mr. Finan's introduction to big-time politics, and he quickly found himself doing broadcast interviews for the first time.
Between events he and about 25 other Iraq and Afghanistan veterans became like a small platoon.
They slept on supporters' floors. They hung out. And they shared stories about arid, bloody places that often looked far worse than what they heard the Bush administration describe on television.
[snip]
“For the first time since I came home, I felt like I had the same clarity of purpose with a like-minded set of individuals,” he said. “It really motivated me.”
[snip]
It was a balmy fall day and the most telling exchange came halfway through, when they ran into Dan Nickloy, 56, a Vietnam veteran sitting on his lawn with his dog.
Mr. Nickloy said that he was an undecided voter and that he was concerned about Mr. Obama's plan to remove troops from Iraq just as victory seemed close.
[snip]
Mr. Finan stepped forward. “I think the Iraqis have gotten comfortable with us being there,” he said. (“That's what I hear,” Mr. Nickloy interjected.) “And we're not going to baby-sit them forever.”
[snip]
The conversation continued, turning from war to sports. Mr. Carter and Mr. Finan walked away unsure of whether they had won Mr. Nickloy over. But they said they trusted the message would slowly sink in. “It's like a foot patrol,” Mr. Carter said. “It's hearts and minds.”
This election has also seen the emergence of "pro mission" veteran volunteers as well, and they are also profiled in the NYT story. But the emergence of veterans as a growing force in progressive politics is one of those things that liberals have been SAYING was going to happen -- like the youth vote -- for many cycles now. And, lo, it took the Muslim terrorist candidate to get it to actually happen.
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1
I wonder if Joe the Plumber would pay his taxes if he lived in Iraq?
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2
AMC -- Good post but this quote says it all:
“For the first time since I came home, I felt like I had the same clarity of purpose with a like-minded set of individuals,” he said. “It really motivated me.”
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3
They have been a growing force. Walz, Sestak among others. Webb of course.
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4
Heh. I've been saying this since I came back in '04. For the first time since Vietnam, there are a lot of young veterans in America, and overall we're better educated and more informed than any group before us. Also, we're pissed. Seriously.
I sat in classified briefings back in '03 getting targets listed and outlined that were completely, completely fabricated and non-existent. It tends to make a lasting impression. I voted for Dole in '96, and Bush in '00. Then after getting back from Iraq I decided Kerry might be kind of a tool, but I knew what kind of colossal *$#%-ups we had in charge from the Bush administration, so it was time for a change. Not everyone had been over yet, and the wheels were still kind-of-theoretically on, plus Kerry inexplicably decided to run on a war that happened 30+ years ago rather than the two that we're fighting right now.
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But yeah, anyway, Iraq vets that ditched the Republicans are a new group, but we're here, we're ticked off, pretty disillusioned and are definitely edging closer to the Twisted Sister moment. -
5
ah heck. um, free my comment, please?
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6
While this being a great story, "baby-sit(ting" the Iraqis hardly seem like the right choice of words.
.
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"We don't have the capacity to clean up after Bush's mess forever" sounds more fitting. -
7
Twenty killed in drone strike in Pakistan:
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/deadliest-kille.html -
8
ARe you talking about Palin the Plumber - or that Joe guy? Palin defined the Republican Party of 2008, and everything that is wrong in America. ..................
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/10/29/obamas-best-chance-palins-example/
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9
And, lo, it took the Muslim terrorist candidate to get it to actually happen.
I know you're just being snarky but it feels to me like the target of your snark are the soldiers themselves. I'm sure that's not your intended effect.
The role of the military in politics is a complex one. At it's most extreme it consists of the Pentagon itself serving up disinformation on behalf of it's own continued operations; at the other end, it's soldiers simply exercising the same rights granted to all citizens.
I do take issue with the notion that being a soldier renders you more qualified to speak about politics than any other citizens may be. Both parties participate in the assumption and it actually skews our debates in the direction of more militarism than is necessarily prudent for our defense or good for our economic well being. It's easy to see how this comes about but I don't think it's actually healthy for us in the long term.
Just my .02 USD.
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10
For those that missed it, here's Joe the Racist Moron getting his nalga handed to him on FOX of all places:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/28/foxs-shepard-smith-forced_n_138674.html -
11
sounds like a few pages from the counterinsurgency manual are being put to work in the ground game. Fantastic.
Country First. Obama 2008
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12
Paul,
I'd have to disagree with you there in some cases. For example, after serving in Iraq during the invasion and through the beginning of 2004 I was significantly more qualified to offer an opinion on how worthless the Bush administration was than just about any non-vet.
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13
plus Kerry inexplicably decided to run on a war that happened 30+ years ago rather than the two that we're fighting right now.
What a coincidence.
So did McCain!
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14
@pauldirks: It doesn't make them (or should I say us) more qualified to speak about politics. However, it does make us much more qualified to discuss WAR, and the clusterchuck that is Iraq and was Vietnam.
Once you are under hostile fire as the result of a political decision, it tends to crystallize the truth of the situation.
And, FWIW, I am confident that you will find most veterans want to avoid conflict like the plague.
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15
What kahkipants said. 100%
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16
Correction: McCain has a PSEUDO-plumber!
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17
Fixed the handle I think. Sheez. Shouldn't make this account at 0200 I guess.
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18
pants thanks for serving
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19
From what my sons tell me, there are a whole lot of active service members exercising their voting choice for Obama also. And, from our recent experience living overseas in conjunction with the military, there is a lot of encouragement via commands and on the AFN for service members to make their voices heard and vote. I don't think this is new - the voting encouragement - but it's going to have an extra effect in Obama's favor, I believe.
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20
pirate wench,
Yeah, the military high command is nuts about troops getting the chance to vote. The encouragement is there every election. The military will still go for McCain, but not nearly in the numbers Republicans are used to. It would be worse for most of the other guys the GOP could have nominated. Some of this is due to McCain having been in. That carries a lot of weight for most guys, myself included (though not enough to get me to vote for him). But yeah, Obama will take a much, much higher percentage of the green machine than anyone would normally expect.
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Also, does anyone know how to change nicknames on this? I used to be Sean DeCoursey, then was Sean DeCoursey forgot his password for awhile, and now I'm apparently stuck as khakipants. -
21
khaki/Sean -
Paul has posted in several threads how to do this - quick and dirty go to your wordpress registration page and there's an option there to choose a nickname different from your log-in name. It's pretty simple, once you get to the page
. -
22
As super mario has proven, never underestimate plumbers
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